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Should hard drugs be decriminalized and then supply pharmaceutical grade drugs to users.

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Doodski

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Thank you very much for the link. Haven't heard much about this in ABQ but gonna ask around tomorrow. It does sound like a contaminant or by-product is present, and doing the damage. Because as they say--real meth is a mild neurotoxin, and takes crushing doses for years to take a toll, but this sounds like anything but mild. That the psychosis is so much worse also interesting.

Unrelated, but along the same lines, users report a major change in the effects of MDMA (xtc). It's a modified methamphetamine and typically doesn't start with meth, but I am betting there is a connection as new forms of synthesis have been discovered for it, one in 2016--again by seizing drugs and finding new trace molecules on analysis.

Effing frightening is what it is.
We have a expanding meth issue here too. The coppers advised that the past year has been the worst for meth ever, the price has dropped from what I heard and people are using meth instead of crack for some reason other than the price.
 

001

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This is a very thought provoking thread. However, would this be better served moved to an other area of the forum rather than 'Audio Audio Audio'? I could be facetious and suggest the 'Desperate Dealers Forum' but that feels wrong and I don't mean to disrespect this topic.
I've had a quick look and there doesn't seem to be a 'general' forum.
Maybe @Doodski and the moderator could work something out? What do you think?
 

Sal1950

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We have a expanding meth issue here too. The coppers advised that the past year has been the worst for meth ever, the price has dropped from what I heard and people are using meth instead of crack for some reason other than the price.
An immensely longer lasting high.
Smoked crack cocaine buzz is much more intense than snorted coke but winds down in a very short time

Good meth supply's a strong, long-lasting speed high and a couple lines can keep you going for 8+ hours.
Half gram can keep you and your lady up and motorcycle riding for 3 days till you have to crash.
Don't know what the street prices are like for either today.
 

vert

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It is thorny problem that modern society has brought upon itself entirely. On the one hand, anything that might protect the non-user population and the vulnerable (children and teenagers) from the scourge of drugs by drawing clear "market" lines is good. On the other hand, it is clear that the drug market wouldn't exist without State complicity. Why would they solve something that is so profitable? In recent years is seems they're not even pretending to try and do so any longer. Also, I'd say no, don't make it too easy, don't institutionalize things. How is it fair to the rest of the population trying to live a normal life ? Western populations are way too drugged and medicated as it is. It isn't natural.
 

JRS

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It is thorny problem that modern society has brought upon itself entirely. On the one hand, anything that might protect the non-user population and the vulnerable (children and teenagers) from the scourge of drugs by drawing clear "market" lines is good. On the other hand, it is clear that the drug market wouldn't exist without State complicity. Why would they solve something that is so profitable? In recent years is seems they're not even pretending to try and do so any longer. Also, I'd say no, don't make it too easy, don't institutionalize things. How is it fair to the rest of the population trying to live a normal life ? Western populations are way too drugged and medicated as it is. It isn't natural.
There is a lot about 21'st century living in highly developed countries that is frighteningly unnatural, and I suspect this first and foremost is responsible for increasing substance use and misuse of both legal and illicit substances. I see it as the emergence of a new breed, Homo moleculo.
 

preload

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No sarcasm… Fentanyl is being used to enhance heroin, cocaine and other street drugs. Fentanyl is many times more potent than the adulterated drug and relatively inexpensive... a relatively small amount can be lethal. Law enforcement and Emergency Medical Services reports are the source of my readings. (https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/prescription-drugs/fentanyl/overdose/)

Please provide a source for the chain you posit above. Thanks.
Fentanyl is a separate problem since it can be mixed with other drugs at unpredictable (and life-threatening) doses.
But even, hypothetically, if legalization of opioids prevented all fentanyl-related deaths, you still have the other other opioids that will go through the progression of tolerance, dependence, escalating doses, and overdose.
This chart shows the rise of fentanyl-related overdose deaths, but if you add up the "other" opioids (prescription opioids + heroin), you can clearly see that non-fentanyl opioids are still the #2 cause of drug-related deaths.

Legalizing opioids will do nothing to halt the physiologic dependence and need for escalating doses that will invariably occur in people who already have an opioid addiction. And if "legal routes" are exhausted to obtain more opioids, everybody knows what great lengths an addict will take to get more.
 
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Sal1950

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Legalizing opioids will do nothing to halt the physiologic dependence and need for escalating doses that will invariably occur in people who already have an opioid addiction. And if "legal routes" aren't exhausted to obtain more opioids, everybody knows what great lengths an addict will take to get more.
No different than alcohol, the number 1 killer and destroyer of lives.
 

Mart68

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I look at it differently, possibly because I'm older.

Some people feel an intense need for something that removes them from their present state of mind. Legality and availability have nothing to do with it, because those do not address the root cause of the addiction, and that root cause is a lack of viable interface between the user and reality.

As population density increases, I think things will get worse. Just my opinion. Jim
people have been consuming cannabis, alcohol, psychedelics and opiates since the stone age. It's not a modern trend.
 

Mart68

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Quite, what is modern is state interference with availability and use.
and the compulsion to save people from themselves. I think that may have started with the industrial philanthropists of the 19th century. Build a new housing estate for your workers to live on, all mod cons, but no public houses serving alcohol because we know what's best for you.

That gradually became accepted as the right way to proceed. Can't have the plebs doing whatever they want, nanny knows best.
 

peanuts

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War on Drugs ?

Remember the dismal record our Govt has with any sort of "War" over the past 75 years. "Wars" cost the taxpayers trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands dead. Not to minimize the suffering of the wounded and displaced.

well duh this is what the elite has always wanted, as many civilians dead as possible and make as much money as possible, also by dealing drugs and using the cartels as patsies. bill clinton financed his whole election campaign with drug money back in the day.
 

Jim Taylor

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people have been consuming cannabis, alcohol, psychedelics and opiates since the stone age. It's not a modern trend.
I wasn't around in the Stone Age to verify that. I'm old, but not quite that old. :D Jim
 

mansr

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Yes. Until it becomes a [usually documented] problem.
Do other drugs carry a greater risk of the user revealing classified information? Trading secrets for drugs could of course be an issue, but that would go away if the drugs were legally available.
 

Raindog123

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Do other drugs carry a greater risk of the user revealing classified information? Trading secrets for drugs could of course be an issue, but that would go away if the drugs were legally available.

Well, AFAIK they've done some studies and analyses, and (a) consider certain drugs much more potent (compared to alcohol) in regard to "momentarily loss of self-control/judgement" and (b) certain drug addictions are considered much more severe (again, compared to alcoholism) in terms of creating [exploitable] financial burden.

...but I was looking for "your guys" opinion. :)
 
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TLEDDY

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Legalizing opioids will do nothing to halt the physiologic dependence and need for escalating doses that will invariably occur in people who already have an opioid addiction
Thank you for the chart!

I cannot find a reference concerning increasing dosage dependence for heroin addiction. Please help me with that.
 
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Doodski

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Do other drugs carry a greater risk of the user revealing classified information? Trading secrets for drugs could of course be an issue, but that would go away if the drugs were legally available.
Crack cocaine is like truth serum. It makes some people babble and go on about stuff. Could be a security risk I think.
 
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