G-rig
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Oh right what did you have before?
The more you spend is usually better.
Some quite good offerings these days in the world of chi-fi, not as cheap as it was though.
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Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?
- Thread starter Willhelm_Scream
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The more you spend is usually better.
Some quite good offerings these days in the world of chi-fi, not as cheap as it was though.
Nothing. Just the p6, didn't know what I was missing. Going to add 2 rythmik LV12m and finally be done with this stereo obsession for good.
G-rig
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Sounds good, don't know about the p6 but assume had a built in DAC/amp.
ethanhallbeyer
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I've read reviews that Su9 Pro and Su10 isn't a big difference audibly, if at all. At least according to the review or two I came across. I'd imagine Su9n would be similar enough to Su9 Pro that it wouldn't be a huge difference?
G-rig
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All that stuff would be very similar especially if same brand and chips. It would be minimal even between the d30, d10s etc.
Guess everyone just hypes stuff up and loves specs on paper.
JSmith
Master Contributor
What does it do the SU-9n doesn't?
How did you arrive at such a definitive conclusion? Please describe your testing protocols.
Night and day huh... whodathunk it!
How does that work?
Please... don't use that term here, thanks in advance;
Let's Avoid the Term Chi-Fi
I often see the use of the term "Chi Fi" to describe audio products from China. I see the intention and don't think anyone is trying to be racist and what have you. Still, I like us to show the highest respect to products from around the world. As avid readers of this forum know...
www.audiosciencereview.com
JSmith
This is not the place that will let you restate as strawman and then dismiss an enormous amount of science so blithely. Just search “DAC sound signature” and click the ’title’ box in the site search (up and to the right).
Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?
I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...
audiosciencereview.com
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Well shit, perhaps my ears significantly changed from the time I played music with the onboard dac on the p6 as compared to when I added the su10. Also the "science" means fuck all, if I can audibly hear a vast difference, especially when it's on the positive side. I bet all those YouTubers who review dacs are also Crack heads.This is not the place that will let you restate as strawman and then dismiss an enormous amount of science so blithely. Just search “DAC sound signature” and click the ’title’ box in the site search (up and to the right).
Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?
I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...
I've been in this hobby for 10 years, trust me when I say I can hear an audible difference with the su10.
JSmith
Master Contributor
ethanhallbeyer
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DAC = Definitely Audible Changes
I like to come on to Audio SCIENCE Forum and tell people to 'fuck your science' because I've been at this for a DECADE and I defintely hear something.
"Trust me bro"
man get this guy a CEO position at Harman straight away!
"Trust me bro"
man get this guy a CEO position at Harman straight away!
If you listen to them, every DAC able to convert a 1KHz sinewave will sound the same. No DAC will ever make any difference, no amp will ever make any difference, adding a preamp between a DAC and an amp won't make any difference, every speaker equalized the same way will sound the same...
Nothing makes any difference. For them 2 setups with not the same amp, not the same dac, not the same preamp, not the same speakers, cannot sound different, even if it does.
If the 1KHz SINAD measurement say the sun is black, you can put them in front of the sky, they will deny it is yellow/white.
New batch moved in.
Sorry, evidence points in the other direction. No can do.
An ”audible difference” in a test where a) the levels were properly matched and b)you didn’t know visually or from some other cue which DAC was playing? If you could document that, it would be interesting. But that outcome is highly improbable, hence the lack of trust - nothing personal. Thank you for emphasizing *audible*, though. That’s an important distinction. We all ‘hear’ differences, most of them prove *inaudible* and arise from expectations and beliefs we held before the equipment got involved, or are just a volume difference (see my signature block).
I’d say this is one hobby where time in seat might actually reduce one’s credibility, unless it is in engineering or audio science, rather than sellling or buying expensive components. But if it counts, I’ve been ‘in the hobby’ since I worked at Atlantis Sound as a gofer in 1978. I have a bunch of equipment for sale that constitutes a fraction of what I’ve bought over the years. The hours I spent trying to tweak the sound from Maggies, Thiels and some of the amps/DACs you see there, and coming to realize how little difference they made, for all the weight, heat, and inconvenience.
Room EQ, and a truly even-dispersion speaker, though. Those are huge differences, and the former is inexpensive. DACs/amps/streamers are mostly just about features, not sound these days.
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But...but... I only listen to 1kHz tones on all my DACs? Who cares about music and such -- that's just a distraction! Silly audiophiles think that DACs are for music reproduction. They are all designed for 1kHz 0dBFS tones only, and that's what you should listen to.
JSmith
Master Contributor
They get paid by sponsors... what logically is more likely to be correct? Don't be an unpaid shill, keeping the cycle of misinformation going.
JSmith
Ken1951
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Sheesh - it's like fricking Whack-A-Mole...
D
Deleted member 21219
Guest
The standard of comparison around here (and in all locations not corrupted by subjectivism) is the double-blind test. It removes bias, even the bias possibly introduced by the test administrator.
It's described here:
Ability to hear differences is similar to ability to write your name. IOW, if you can do it today, you can do it tomorrow, you can do it up-side down, you can even do it in the dark, etc.
If you can't hear it in those various instances, especially under rigorous controls, then the conclusion is that you can't hear it ..... period. Tough for some people to accept, but true.
Jim
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Ricardus
Addicted to Fun and Learning
AAAAND we have another bogus account sent here to argue. I bet there are all PS Audio users coming here to cause trouble.
Ricardus
Addicted to Fun and Learning
You can't. Your brain is lying to you. I bet you think you can ABSOLUTELY hear a difference when you know which is which. But other than that? No.
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