-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?
- Thread starter Willhelm_Scream
- Start date
Oh I *know* all right as it was so easily repeatable over years and vanues too, but trying to convince you lot will be impossible, so I'll leave you to your views that it was all in my imagination
You think sighted/cognitive bias can't operate across years and venues?
If so, I've identified something that you don't know.
MAB
Major Contributor
So true. I recall clearly bad sounding events and venues, for instance Alan Holdsworth playing way too loudly over a broken PA.
Or numerous outdoor events in gusty wind. These are defects, not sound quality by my way of reckoning. Despite strong impressions, I have no way of ranking or contrasting sound quality from different events.I used to own one until recently, but after going the active speaker route (ME Geithain) I have decided to try and drastically simplify my system. So instead of a DDC to a DAC to an integrated amplifier to passive speakers I am now running an Eversolo DAC to active speakers. I wanted to hold on to the Mark Levinson because it has sentimental value to me, but… the €699 Eversolo was much better, no competition really. Mind you, the Mark Levinson was recapped and serviced a while back, so I don’t think its relative weakness can be attributed to age.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
I'm not sure how anything could be "so much better" especially coming out of speakers. With 100 SINAD and even reasonable linearity; it would be tough to tell this apart from most other DAC's without critical listening through the highest resolution headphones / IEMs you can find (along with a transparent amp).
I've been cycling through 3 different DACs for a couple of weeks after getting the new speakers. The RME ADI-2 DAC was annoying and hyper-detailed (I do like it with headphones, but with speakers I find it intolerable). Mark Levinson was very pleasant, mid-bass centric, but lacking in transparency. The Eversolo was just fine, transparent and "flavour-less".
Jimster480
Major Contributor
I'm sorry but I really don't understand how any of those differences would exist in DACs. I have tested tons and tons of DACs and for me "differences" are found in resolution or how certain instruments are handled at the high end (usually string instruments which are hitting high notes) or certain micro details that are lost on Inferior DACs... But honestly that is with critical listening and high end headphones with a transparent amp.
I doubt any would be possible to hear using regular speakers considering the SINAD performance of speaker amps and distortion levels of speakers themselves.
I would guess that maybe output voltages are different on the DACs you tested and maybe your amp prefers one voltage over the other... Either voltage too high or low...
These are the technical reasons that may support "differences".
Can you tell me which tracks you played to test the 3 different DACs along with time stamps?
I don't keep a log of my listening sessions, sorry I'm listening to jazz and classical mostly. And also, what's the point? If, as you say, there are technical reasons that may support the differences, one has to listen to find the DAC one likes, it's not enough to just look at the SINAD number.
I'm listening to jazz and classical mostly. And also, what's the point? If, as you say, there are technical reasons that may support the differences, one has to listen to find the DAC one likes, it's not enough to just look at the SINAD number.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
No, actually the technical reason is just that your volume is set incorrectly on one of the devices. Sometimes DAC's output too much (or too little voltage) and the volume on the DAC needs to be adjusted to sound the same (or on the AMP if the DAC output is too low).I don't keep a log of my listening sessions, sorry
I listen to tons of Jazz & Classical so I am well aware of differences specifically in those genre's. I am top 1% in the world on Spotify and my Top Genre was Classical.
I don't know man, I did my listening at a range of volumes, not some fixed setting. The basic character was the same. If I may use a metaphor (I know, I know), the Eversolo is plain water, Mark Levinson is water with syrup, and the RME is heavily carbonated water. None of them sounded bad, or off, or broken, but the difference, to me, was obvious.
Hi @LeonidK. I've been around quality audio gear professionally for about 24 years in total in my life. 9 years @ the audio equipment sales floor and 15 years as a electronic technician. I was a very enthusiastic subjective sort at the beginning 9 years and as I educated myself I became scientific about the stuff and was as enthusiastic. I have carefully listened to thousands of models of digital sources and the reality is that upon a careful proper listening test they all sound about the same. I don't mean to bust your bubble although the specs indicate they sound the same too.
I just don't see how people can actually differentiate between the digital sources by ear.
Anecdotes do not make for good science.
Oh, science is great. ASR has been a breath of fresh air, truly. It's just the "everything is the same" part (or, similarly, "everything can be made to sound the same if you tweak positioning, EQ, etc.") that I personally don't buy. I don't have the capacity to go through a hundred different DACs to decide that they are actually very similar. I much prefer to pick 3 "scientifically approved" ones and choose one that I like the most, subjectively. I don't care that a fancy, cardioid, active Kii Three is a perfect speaker, to me it doesn't sound very good. But an equally fancy, cardioid, active ME Geithain does, and I like the way it looks in my room, and I don't need to experiment with its positioning for weeks to make it perform the way I like.
Well, that's not quite the premise, but most basically competent components don't have a lot of room for audible differences under normal use.
Give it a whirl. Doing this for myself some years ago answered more questions than I knew I had.
Yes, ASR members would appropriately discount your subjective listening impressions.
I might use this as my new signature,
Quote,
‘Because the sound coming from it is not music. It has no emotion what so ever. It’s flat and has no dept. The words of the artists no longer match the sound.’
Keith
Quote,
‘Because the sound coming from it is not music. It has no emotion what so ever. It’s flat and has no dept. The words of the artists no longer match the sound.’
Keith
I wasn’t quite clear which piece of equipment you were referring to?
But whichever I still might use it for my signature.
Keith
But whichever I still might use it for my signature.
Keith
I'm not discounting other ASR users' subjective listening impressions.
Just yours, which are particularly ludicrous.
I'm not offended. It's not personal. It's the content of your post.
Similar threads
- Poll
