Sennheiser HD650 Review (Headphone)

[audieu]

According to its frequency response graph and your past experiences you might like the new Audeze MM-500. They are tuned differently from the classic Audezes, not as dark and closer to the Sennheisers.

Hey! Yesterday I got the chance to listen to Audeze MM-500 extensively. I also tried the Hifiman HE-1000 V2.

The HE-1000 is a comfortable and good sounding headphone. I liked it better than the Arya, because it's better balanced, has less treble spikes and worked better for all the genres I liked than the Arya. But I missed the slight mid forwardness und intimacy the HD650 offers me. Build quality is not acceptable for a >2000 € headphone. It wasn't faulty or anything, but it looks and feels really cheap (especially the cable, is this a joke?) and the price doesn't feel justified when holding it in the hands. Overall the sound was somehow very non-offensive and too polite for most "popular" music styles, but I really liked it for classical and soundtracks.

I liked the MM-500 better. It has a very nice tonal balance and you are right - it actually sounds similar to the HD650. It has a mid forward sound that I liked and the bass extension of course is better than the HD650s, while the treble felt just a tiny bit more airy, but really without any sibilance or harshness. Soundstage felt rather small and similar to the HD650. The build quality and feel was outstanding and it's lighter than the Audezes I owned before. The comfort was just okay - the pad pressure was really high so it wasn't super comfy, but I could wear it for 2 hours without problems. If you have the financial resources and look for a planar with a HD6XX style tonal balance you should try out the MM-500. It tried the LCD-X for a few minutes and it wasn't as good tuned, lacking in 1-5khz range. Altogether the MM-500 is a good headphone, but still fairly heavy, not super comfortable and very expensive (2100 €). Combined with the risk of a driver failure (that is way less than a few years ago, but still a higher probability than for dynamic headphones) and I don't see myself buying them or any other Audeze or Hifiman headphone.

Overall this made me appreciate the wonderful tonal balance and amazing value of the HD650 even more. I just wonder if I would like the HD600 with a tad less warmth and more air even more, especially for classical music and jazz. Or if a AKG K612 would be a good complement for a slightly more neutral sound with a bigger soundstage.
The only expensive headphone I am still be interested in is the ZMF Auteur (Classic) due to the amazing looks and build and lifelong driver guarantee. The Auteur should also sound really balanced and natural. But unfortunately I have no opportunity to try them out here so I don't think this will happen.

 

[solderdude]

I just wonder if I would like the HD600 with a tad less warmth and more air even more, especially for classical music and jazz.

The differences between HD650 and HD600 are very small. When you EQ the small midbass emphasis (between 100Hz and 400Hz) about 2dB lower you end up with a HD600.
There is not more 'air' in the HD600. The HD650 only has slightly more warmth and because of this the upper mids and treble is just relatively lower in amplitude.

An older HD650 fitted with the new Sennheiser pads will also bring the HD650 a bit closer to the older HD600.
The difference between old HD650 and HD600 and new HD650 and HD600 (pad differences) of course stays the same.
One can increase the damping behind the HD650 driver which also turns it into a HD600 (tonally).

 

[jae]

Question can I use the same EQ posted in the review for the HD6XX? From my understanding there is no difference between the HD6XX and HD650 other than clamping force?

Don't think there's any difference in force, but obviously if one compares a brand new 6XX to a used 650 there it will have greater clamp force since it is not broken in yet. On 600-series headphones you can easily manually bend the band or stretch it on a few books or something over time to loosen the clamp force.

Overall this made me appreciate the wonderful tonal balance and amazing value of the HD650 even more. I just wonder if I would like the HD600 with a tad less warmth and more air even more, especially for classical music and jazz. Or if a AKG K612 would be a good complement for a slightly more neutral sound with a bigger soundstage.
The only expensive headphone I am still be interested in is the ZMF Auteur (Classic) due to the amazing looks and build and lifelong driver guarantee. The Auteur should also sound really balanced and natural. But unfortunately I have no opportunity to try them out here so I don't think this will happen.

HD650/6XX is a great headphone. Many people feel the need to "upgrade" it after enjoying them for a while to something with 'less plastic', better build quality, or a higher price tag. Historically the HD650 was the first expensive 'hi-fi headphone' for a lot of people and the first time they spent a good sum of money on a headphone- they saw how much of an improvement it was over many cheaper headphones and logically assume that spending even more will result in similar gains in performance or happiness, yet there aren't many headphones that outperform it objectively or even subjectively to a lot of people these days. HD600 is close enough that there is hardly any difference and any subtle differences can easily be compensated for with EQ. Oftentimes HD600 is significantly more expensive than the $200 HD6XX (HD650 equivalent). Auteur is a $1500 sidegrade at best, the response is less smooth as well, and it still needs EQ, and I would argue MM-500 is similar in that regard and costs even more. Even just 1 or two PEQ filters on the HD650 from 20-350hz fixes a majority of its flaws. If you want a lower distortion planar and are fine with using EQ, there are options from DCA that cost ~$500 which have better bass extension, lighter, and more comfortable out of the box than most other headphones.

 

[staticV3]

There is not more 'air' in the HD600. The HD650 only has slightly more warmth and because of this the upper mids and treble is just relatively lower in amplitude.

Oratory's measurements of 20 units of each model indeed show slightly less treble on the HD650:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564584833929691136

 

[JanesJr1]

Don't think there's any difference in force, but obviously if one compares a brand new 6XX to a used 650 there it will have greater clamp force since it is not broken in yet. On 600-series headphones you can easily manually bend the band or stretch it on a few books or something over time to loosen the clamp force.


HD650/6XX is a great headphone. Many people feel the need to "upgrade" it after enjoying them for a while to something with 'less plastic', better build quality, or a higher price tag. Historically the HD650 was the first expensive 'hi-fi headphone' for a lot of people and the first time they spent a good sum of money on a headphone- they saw how much of an improvement it was over many cheaper headphones and logically assume that spending even more will result in similar gains in performance or happiness, yet there aren't many headphones that outperform it objectively or even subjectively to a lot of people these days. HD600 is close enough that there is hardly any difference and any subtle differences can easily be compensated for with EQ. Oftentimes HD600 is significantly more expensive than the $200 HD6XX (HD650 equivalent). Auteur is a $1500 sidegrade at best, the response is less smooth as well, and it still needs EQ, and I would argue MM-500 is similar in that regard and costs even more. Even just 1 or two PEQ filters on the HD650 from 20-350hz fixes a majority of its flaws. If you want a lower distortion planar and are fine with using EQ, there are options from DCA that cost ~$500 which have better bass extension, lighter, and more comfortable out of the box than most other headphones.

Re-reading Amir's original review at the top of this thread, I remember that my HD6XX headphones were my original hi-fi headphones, and I liked them a lot. But later getting DCA planar 'phones poisoned the well for me with regard to the Sennheiser phones. When I EQ the bass of my headphones, or even when I don't, the planar bass is so much tighter and undistorted that I can't go back to the HD6XX phones, despite their other virtues. I'm not a basshead -- I just relish the ability to have a smoothly-integrated, clean, sub-bass-to-treble frequency response, especially for acoustic sources, and I can get that with planars a lot more easily.

I know the argument that bass distortion can be perceived as a kind of euphonic resonance, as Amir mentioned in his review. I have experienced that in a good number of different contexts, and did originally with the HD6XX to some degree. I do enjoy it in moderation and in certain contexts. But when I heard what undistorted bass sounds like on 'phones with lots of EQ-headroom, I was sensitized to the difference that arises from higher levels of distortion on dynamic drivers. I found that the HD6XX phones go way too far, especially when I EQ'd the bass closer to Harman/Oratory levels.

This is subjective, and I don't want to be argumentative with HD650 lovers. But this doesn't even seem to be a close call; the difference is profound with this older driver design. The HD6XX headphones simply have too much bass distortion compared to other available headphones, and it's not necessarily euphonic... at least to me. Bass-sensitive buyers beware. I say so a little reluctantly, because I know what a pioneering place the HD600 phones have had and I remember learning a lot about what good headphone fidelity was on my own pair, especially for classical/acoustic music sources.

 

[solderdude]

Oratory's measurements of 20 units of each model indeed show slightly less treble on the HD650:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564584833929691136

That is because both traces are overlaid at 400Hz. As can be seen there appears to be no difference in the lower mids bass.
Because of this it appears as though there is less treble in the HD650 but this is the same as stating the HD650 has more midbass/lows.
So these plots are basically saying the same thing but normalized at a different frequency.

Below just 1 HD600 vs 1 HD650 at 1 measurement position.

There is also evidence not all HD650 are created equal over the years and now the new pads that also change tonality a bit.

 

[staticV3]

Honestly I think oratory's overlay is very sensible and concluding from it that the HD600 has on average more treble than the HD650 is perfectly viable.

Sure you could argue that "well actually, if you align the two at 12k, you will see that the HD600 doesn't have more treble, just less bass and less mids"

But is that in any way productive?

 

[solderdude]

It doesn't have to do anything with something being productive.
What is 'warmer' to person A may be 'having less treble' to someone else.
Both are looking at it from another point of view, equally valid.
The same can be said from measurements which was the point I was trying to make.

So for person A the HD650 sounds warmer/fuller and to person B the HD600 may sound clearer when we are talking about the same difference.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

Theoretically it is possible to have both. I think of Beyerdynamic headphones, Amiron Home etc.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hey! Yesterday I got the chance to listen to Audeze MM-500 extensively. I also tried the Hifiman HE-1000 V2.

The HE-1000 is a comfortable and good sounding headphone. I liked it better than the Arya, because it's better balanced, has less treble spikes and worked better for all the genres I liked than the Arya. But I missed the slight mid forwardness und intimacy the HD650 offers me. Build quality is not acceptable for a >2000 € headphone. It wasn't faulty or anything, but it looks and feels really cheap (especially the cable, is this a joke?) and the price doesn't feel justified when holding it in the hands. Overall the sound was somehow very non-offensive and too polite for most "popular" music styles, but I really liked it for classical and soundtracks.

I liked the MM-500 better. It has a very nice tonal balance and you are right - it actually sounds similar to the HD650. It has a mid forward sound that I liked and the bass extension of course is better than the HD650s, while the treble felt just a tiny bit more airy, but really without any sibilance or harshness. Soundstage felt rather small and similar to the HD650. The build quality and feel was outstanding and it's lighter than the Audezes I owned before. The comfort was just okay - the pad pressure was really high so it wasn't super comfy, but I could wear it for 2 hours without problems. If you have the financial resources and look for a planar with a HD6XX style tonal balance you should try out the MM-500. It tried the LCD-X for a few minutes and it wasn't as good tuned, lacking in 1-5khz range. Altogether the MM-500 is a good headphone, but still fairly heavy, not super comfortable and very expensive (2100 €). Combined with the risk of a driver failure (that is way less than a few years ago, but still a higher probability than for dynamic headphones) and I don't see myself buying them or any other Audeze or Hifiman headphone.

Overall this made me appreciate the wonderful tonal balance and amazing value of the HD650 even more. I just wonder if I would like the HD600 with a tad less warmth and more air even more, especially for classical music and jazz. Or if a AKG K612 would be a good complement for a slightly more neutral sound with a bigger soundstage.
The only expensive headphone I am still be interested in is the ZMF Auteur (Classic) due to the amazing looks and build and lifelong driver guarantee. The Auteur should also sound really balanced and natural. But unfortunately I have no opportunity to try them out here so I don't think this will happen.

Just experiment with EQ, advising you as a starting point the Oratory EQ's. Debating nuances of different headphones whilst not using EQ is a bit like stating the obvious, but relevant if you know you won't be using EQ. You certainly don't need to be concerned with differences between HD650 & HD600 as structurally they are very similar headphones so theoretically you can emulate either with a little bit of EQ based around the Oratory measurements. Using headphones just in their stock condition is really limiting, generally headphones are a lot more fixable with EQ than speakers......it's just silly to limit yourself to stock headphones unless you can't fit EQ into your audio chain.

 

[Robbo99999]

Re-reading Amir's original review at the top of this thread, I remember that my HD6XX headphones were my original hi-fi headphones, and I liked them a lot. But later getting DCA planar 'phones poisoned the well for me with regard to the Sennheiser phones. When I EQ the bass of my headphones, or even when I don't, the planar bass is so much tighter and undistorted that I can't go back to the HD6XX phones, despite their other virtues. I'm not a basshead -- I just relish the ability to have a smoothly-integrated, clean, sub-bass-to-treble frequency response, especially for acoustic sources, and I can get that with planars a lot more easily.

I know the argument that bass distortion can be perceived as a kind of euphonic resonance, as Amir mentioned in his review. I have experienced that in a good number of different contexts, and did originally with the HD6XX to some degree. I do enjoy it in moderation and in certain contexts. But when I heard what undistorted bass sounds like on 'phones with lots of EQ-headroom, I was sensitized to the difference that arises from higher levels of distortion on dynamic drivers. I found that the HD6XX phones go way too far, especially when I EQ'd the bass closer to Harman/Oratory levels.

This is subjective, and I don't want to be argumentative with HD650 lovers. But this doesn't even seem to be a close call; the difference is profound with this older driver design. The HD6XX headphones simply have too much bass distortion compared to other available headphones, and it's not necessarily euphonic... at least to me. Bass-sensitive buyers beware. I say so a little reluctantly, because I know what a pioneering place the HD600 phones have had and I remember learning a lot about what good headphone fidelity was on my own pair, especially for classical/acoustic music sources.

I agree, I can't get fantastic bass on my HD600 using EQ, it's surpassed in the bass by all my other headphones in terms of how good the bass is once EQ'd (so HD560s / HE4XX / HP50 /Truthear Crinacle Zero / K702 -> all better in the bass after EQ vs the EQ'd HD600).

 

[audieu]

Thank you all for your responses. I will stick very happily with my HD 650.

I wonder - what is the best affordable (< 500 €) comfortable over-ear closed back alternative for a HD650/HD650-like stock natural tuning (harman-oriented, especially in mid and highs, but not a big fan of the elevated harman bass target) with decent isolation and build-quality (longevity, spare-parts) that I could use happily without EQ? I do have the Audeze Sine as closed headphones which sound really good (wasn't surprised to see that it's really close to harman target between 100 Hz and 3,5 kHz) but they are very uncomfortable for me and that's why my girlfriend uses them daily (comfortable for her - due to smaller head and ears I guess).

Beyerdynamic DT 250? Potential con: High Pressure (comfort), Channel Imbalance
AKG K371? Potential Con: Build Quality and Comfort, too much bass
Shure SRH 1540? Con: Mid bass bloat, I hate boomy headphones. Had the Beyerdynamic T50p once for a short time and found them just horrible. The V-Moda M100 too, even worse. Wasn't a big fan of the boosted bass of the Fidelio X1 I has for a few weeks either.
NAD VISO HP50?
Austrian Audio Hi-X60? Haven't found a contra yet and additional pro: Portability (office, travel)

Dan Clark Audio AEON Noire 2 would probably tick all the boxes, but costs 1000 € and I think that is too much compared to the prices of the other headphones.
Any other options I forgot?

 

[Leiker535]

Dan Clark Audio AEON Noire 2 would probably tick all the boxes, but costs 1000 € and I think that is too much compared to the prices of the other headphones.
Any other options I forgot?

Dont have to go that far, the AEON Closed X is harman tuned:

Drop Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed X

This thread is to cover Drop's release of their version of Dan Clark Audio's Aeon Closed RT headphones, which Drop calls the "Aeon Closed X". All discussion is welcome. Here is the link: Drop + Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed X Drop's description of their collaboration: "Our last collaboration...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[JanesJr1]

Thank you all for your responses. I will stick very happily with my HD 650.

I wonder - what is the best affordable (< 500 €) comfortable over-ear closed back alternative for a HD650/HD650-like stock natural tuning (harman-oriented, especially in mid and highs, but not a big fan of the elevated harman bass target) with decent isolation and build-quality (longevity, spare-parts) that I could use happily without EQ? I do have the Audeze Sine as closed headphones which sound really good (wasn't surprised to see that it's really close to harman target between 100 Hz and 3,5 kHz) but they are very uncomfortable for me and that's why my girlfriend uses them daily (comfortable for her - due to smaller head and ears I guess).

Beyerdynamic DT 250? Potential con: High Pressure (comfort), Channel Imbalance
AKG K371? Potential Con: Build Quality and Comfort, too much bass
Shure SRH 1540? Con: Mid bass bloat, I hate boomy headphones. Had the Beyerdynamic T50p once for a short time and found them just horrible. The V-Moda M100 too, even worse. Wasn't a big fan of the boosted bass of the Fidelio X1 I has for a few weeks either.
NAD VISO HP50?
Austrian Audio Hi-X60? Haven't found a contra yet and additional pro: Portability (office, travel)

Dan Clark Audio AEON Noire 2 would probably tick all the boxes, but costs 1000 € and I think that is too much compared to the prices of the other headphones.
Any other options I forgot?

I own the Noire and HD6XX. I also own the Dan Clark/Drop Aeon Closed X, which has most of what the Noire offers, and a very similar sound, for a cost closer to that of the HD6XX. Much lower bass distortion (and very audibly so) than the Sennheiser with very tight, clean bass all the way down to 20Hz, in addition to clean mids and treble. Also more comfortable and better-built. Check Amir's review. Drop periodically discounts it to $379 although the regular list price is $499.

I haven't read your whole thread to understand your preferences, but I also own the HiFiMan Sundara, which is justifiably a classic, at about $300. I like it a lot, but rate the Closed X just a notch higher on SQ, more comfortable, and better built... as well as a bit pricier.

 

[audieu]

Thanks - the Drop Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed X looks fantastic, but unfortunately it's not available here in Germany and I am not sure if I want to mess with customs. It can be a pain in the ass.

 

[markanini]

Thank you all for your responses. I will stick very happily with my HD 650.

I wonder - what is the best affordable (< 500 €) comfortable over-ear closed back alternative for a HD650/HD650-like stock natural tuning (harman-oriented, especially in mid and highs, but not a big fan of the elevated harman bass target) with decent isolation and build-quality (longevity, spare-parts) that I could use happily without EQ? I do have the Audeze Sine as closed headphones which sound really good (wasn't surprised to see that it's really close to harman target between 100 Hz and 3,5 kHz) but they are very uncomfortable for me and that's why my girlfriend uses them daily (comfortable for her - due to smaller head and ears I guess).

Beyerdynamic DT 250? Potential con: High Pressure (comfort), Channel Imbalance
AKG K371? Potential Con: Build Quality and Comfort, too much bass
Shure SRH 1540? Con: Mid bass bloat, I hate boomy headphones. Had the Beyerdynamic T50p once for a short time and found them just horrible. The V-Moda M100 too, even worse. Wasn't a big fan of the boosted bass of the Fidelio X1 I has for a few weeks either.
NAD VISO HP50?
Austrian Audio Hi-X60? Haven't found a contra yet and additional pro: Portability (office, travel)

Dan Clark Audio AEON Noire 2 would probably tick all the boxes, but costs 1000 € and I think that is too much compared to the prices of the other headphones.
Any other options I forgot?

Skip the DT250-80, but the DT250-250 is good if you you can live it's channel imbalance. You can consider Shure SRH440. AKG 371 will probably be the best sounding overall.

 

[audieu]

Just now I was laying on the couch and listening to my beloved HD 650 when I noticed quite loud noise/crackles (more like two/three quick "bopbopbops") when standing up. It is reproducible. Is this normal? Is this static noise? It's the first time in 4 years of owning them that I noticed this kind of behavior.

 

[Robbo99999]

Just now I was laying on the couch and listening to my beloved HD 650 when I noticed quite loud noise/crackles (more like two/three quick "bopbopbops") when standing up. It is reproducible. Is this normal? Is this static noise? It's the first time in 4 years of owning them that I noticed this kind of behavior.

It's your back!

 

[LTig]

Just now I was laying on the couch and listening to my beloved HD 650 when I noticed quite loud noise/crackles (more like two/three quick "bopbopbops") when standing up. It is reproducible. Is this normal? Is this static noise? It's the first time in 4 years of owning them that I noticed this kind of behavior.

Could be movement of the cable connects in the sockets of the headphone.

 

[isostasy]

I have made some measurements for those interested in the history and development of this much-loved headphone.

If you take the pads and front foam off you will see an oval ring surrounding the dome of the speaker membrane, which I'll refer to as the 'screen' from now on. You can partially see this by looking through the back of the grille also. Sennheiser used different materials for this not only over the course of the HD6x0 series but for the HD580 Precision as well, and possibly the HD5x5 series.

This photo from innerfidelity shows it best:

I have a set of HD265 Linear headphones which are essentially identical to the HD545 and HD565 Ovation besides having a closed back and pleather pads. More to the point, they have the old driver housing with black paper screen (first column above). The driver in this series is similar to that of the flagship HD580 released at the time, but has an impedance of 150ohms.

The HD650 measured by amir is the latest silver screen version (like the 4th column above), which is what the HD6XX is based on.

Everyone who's looked into this knows that each version sounds different, and there are measurements to prove it, but these have always been comparing the entire headphones. In my measurements below I've only changed one variable at a time.

Usual disclaimers about flat-plate couplers apply: these measurements are only useful in relation to themselves, which is fortunately all we need here. Ignore the strange blip at 50Hz.

First up is the well-known HD6XX which is functionally identical to the HD650 reviewed by amir here:

Installed behind the black paper, we get a lower response between 1-10kHz. It's not much, around -1.5dB mostly, but perhaps enough for some to have termed the HD650 'veiled' during this iteration, a term which has stuck unfairly in my opinion.

But how about the older generation 150ohm driver? If the silver screen brings up the upper mids and treble, could we do just as well with the old driver in the new housing?

No: all else equal, the new 300ohm driver clearly has a different response. With the 150ohm driver you can either remove the rear foam damping to match the bass response with the HD6XX, in which case you lose out on mids and treble, or use foam to lift the upper mids to the same level as the HD6XX, in which case you get much earlier bass roll-off. Even then, response remains lower between 4-10kHz.

Just for fun:

And all together which much lower res Y axis to de-emphasize the differences: