Sennheiser HD 650/HD 6XX

[pkane]

The Harman target is measured with reference to a dummy head and pinna, i.e. the headphones they used in the study were measured on their dummy, and the target response was calibrated based on measurements taken on this dummy. They've developed their pinna with a lot of care, but nevertheless their target response will not be correct for you if your head and pinnae are significantly dissimilar to Harman's.

Also, the Harman target curve is not flat in the bass. There's actually a 4dB shelf, which is lacking in the HD650s. These would be considered lean headphones with reference to the Harman curve.

EDIT: OE2017 in the graph below is the current Harman curve for over-ear headphones I believe:
View attachment 14391

Here's my attempt at Harman curve with HE-560s, measured:

 

[March Audio]

Why the ear needs to be accounted for in headphones - but not in speakers - I cannot understand. To me, it looks like double standards.

Headphones don’t come with a prescription for different ears. If headphone producers wanted to account for different ears, they could’ve made different versions of the same model or include EQ in the headphones. Instead, chaos reigns. Who profits on confusion?

As SIY has already said cans create a (semi) sealed enclosure where the ear anatomy becomes significant.

Actually they should come with prescriptions to suit the individual. EQ and correction is starting to become prevent.

I gather there are some cans that try to measure your individual response and correct for it. I will try and find a link

 

[svart-hvitt]

As SIY has already said cans create a (semi) sealed enclosure where the ear anatomy becomes significant.

Actually they should come with prescriptions to suit the individual. EQ and correction is starting to become prevent.

I gather there are some cans that try to measure your individual response and correct for it. I will try and find a link

Do in-ears have pinna «problems»?

 

[March Audio]

I suppose not, but that is one of the smaller issues

 

[SIY]

Here's my attempt at Harman curve with HE-560s, measured:

How did you do this measurement?

 

[svart-hvitt]

I suppose not, but that is one of the smaller issues

View attachment 14408

Maybe these guys (or equivalent) would be the better experts on this issue:

https://www.oticon.com/

Hearing aid is big, I believe, and experts from that area should know pretty well how to transform a flat curve to something else.

PS: See also this: https://www.eriksholm.com/

 

[pkane]

How did you do this measurement?

Behringer mic stuck into a plastic bottle cut in half, through the cap, filled with foam and secured to the headphone. I posted a photo of this a while back.

 

[SIY]

Behringer mic stuck into a plastic bottle cut in half, through the cap, filled with foam and secured to the headphone. I posted a photo of this a while back.

OK, thanks- I thought it would be that, but wanted to verify it.

 

[maverickronin]

Do in-ears have pinna «problems»?

I suppose not, but that is one of the smaller issues

IME in-ears usually have it the worst because they have the least interaction with you own personal HRTF.

 

[Grave]

Trying out different headphones until I find one that happens to fit me exactly is a non-starter..

This is easy to do though. The HD 650's and HD 660 S's sound near perfect to me personally, in terms of frequency response. I actually started out with the HD 650's and tried more headphones over time which never seemed to get the FR right to me, so my search ended where I began.

 

[Grave]

The Harman target is measured with reference to a dummy head and pinna, i.e. the headphones they used in the study were measured on their dummy, and the target response was calibrated based on measurements taken on this dummy. They've developed their pinna with a lot of care, but nevertheless their target response will not be correct for you if your head and pinnae are significantly dissimilar to Harman's.

Also, the Harman target curve is not flat in the bass. There's actually a 4dB shelf, which is lacking in the HD650s. These would be considered lean headphones with reference to the Harman curve.

EDIT: OE2017 in the graph below is the current Harman curve for over-ear headphones I believe:
View attachment 14391

I am aware that the FR of the HD 650's and the Harman target FR do not match exactly, but they are interestingly close. IDK why that Harman target FR has such a crazy amount of deep bass. That much deep bass will not sound good to me, although the HD 650's deep bass roll off is no good to me either.

 

[pkane]

This is easy to do though. The HD 650's and HD 660 S's sound near perfect to me personally, in terms of frequency response. I actually started out with the HD 650's and tried more headphones over time which never seemed to get the FR right to me, so my search ended where I began.

I question your statement that it's easy to do. I'm glad you lucked out with HD650s/660s, I agree that they can be very pleasant-sounding. But that doesn't mean they are a good fit for everyone or that they are the best possible fit for you. The process of trying out different headphones until I find the ones that fit doesn't appeal to me, but figuring out why my current headphones don't fit as well as they could and correcting for it -- does.

 

[Sal1950]

This is easy to do though. The HD 650's and HD 660 S's sound near perfect to me personally, in terms of frequency response. I actually started out with the HD 650's and tried more headphones over time which never seemed to get the FR right to me, so my search ended where I began.

Agreed. The same story can be read maybe hundreds of times on the HeadFi HD650 official thread. Owners who have owned 3,4,and 5 sets of 650s, selling them for something else and later again coming back to them.. Maybe not perfect but for so many they seem "just right".

I agree that they can be very pleasant-sounding. But that doesn't mean they are a good fit for everyone or that they are the best possible fit for you. The process of trying out different headphones until I find the ones that fit doesn't appeal to me, but figuring out why my current headphones don't fit as well as they could and correcting for it -- does.

It's that "best possible" part that can send you into the never ending spiral of hi fi hell, with headphones or any other component. Sometimes "good enough" is a better choice than "best possible".

 

[pkane]

It's that "best possible" part that can send you into the never ending spiral of hi fi hell, with headphones or any other component. Sometimes "good enough" is a better choice than "best possible".

So you're advocating a subjective listening test in preference to measurements?

 

[Grave]

Yeah, very easy to do. Maybe try this spectrum of headphones. These are all cheap.

$150 HD 58X - dull to me
$200 HD 6XX/650 - balanced to me
$100 HD 580/600 - bright to me

I would be very surprised if none of these did not sound right to anyone.

 

[Grave]

The HD 58X's sound like ass btw, idk why people like them.

 

[derp1n]

The HD 58X's sound like ass btw, idk why people like them.

People like bass.

Also I suspect Massdrop causes people to overvalue stuff because they believe they got some kind of bargain.

 

[Grave]

People like bass.

Also I suspect Massdrop causes people to overvalue stuff because they believe they got some kind of bargain.

I think most audiophiles prefer treble boosted headphones.

 

[esm]

My daily drivers up until recently were the HD 6xx, and I completely agree with your assessment of them, but I still have a set of E-MU Teaks as my "fun" headphones for gaming/EDM/loud raunchy rock. Bass is fun.

I have a really hard time with headphones that significantly boost the higher frequencies; what seems to sound great or a little bright to other people typically sounds sibilant and fatiguing to me. But I never claimed to be an audiophile.

 

[Grave]

The DT 880's and K7XX's are considered good but they are pretty much unlistenable to me.