Sealed vs Ported vs Other-types...

[levimax]

Where do you get this 86 dB from? Spec is "Maximum short term sine wave SPL output averaged from 30 to 85 Hz, measured in half space at 1 meter: 103 dB". Since the port is the highest output on the frequency response (excluding LFE channel), it's at least 103 dB at 30 Hz. Remove 6 dB for the half-space gain and you're still at 97 dB.
Not that I don't acknowledge the fact that the 7x50 serie is for nearfield.

Looking at the FR vs SPL graph on their detailed spec sheet at 30 Hz is where I got 86 db. I don't understand how they get from the results on their graph to the 103 dB number but I may not be looking at it correctly. https://www.genelec.com/7050c#section-technical-specifications

 

[richard12511]

While the Genelec 7050C is an amazing piece of engineering if you look closer at the specs it only puts out ~86 db @ 30 Hz @ 1 meter and has 4% distortion. Fine for a desktop system but if you have a decent size room it is not going to cut it. Of course they have bigger models but the prices get crazy quickly.

Yeah I would honestly avoid Genelec when looking at subs. While they may be the best loudspeaker designers in the world, their subs are often pretty poor value. A lot of the bigger manufacturers seem to have the same problem with their subs. I think a lot people just buy them cause they're there and they "match" the mains, and thus they can justify a higher price than what the objective performance would naturally dictate.

7050C is ~$1,200 here and lists a max output of 103db and a -6 of 24Hz. Compare that to something like the Rythmik FV15 for $1,300 and its max output of 118db and capable of pushing out ~100db at 12.5Hz. Of course, given the low tech required to make good subs, DIY reigns supreme in terms of value. I'm a bit skeptical of many DIY builds when it comes loudspeakers(hard to compete with the R&D of the big guys), but for subwoofers, they're at the top of the heap.

 

[q3cpma]

Looking at the FR vs SPL graph on their detailed spec sheet at 30 Hz is where I got 86 db. I don't understand how they get from the results on their graph to the 103 dB number but I may not be looking at it correctly. https://www.genelec.com/7050c#section-technical-specifications

The FR curve simply isn't about maximum power.

Yeah I would honestly avoid Genelec when looking at subs. While they may be the best loudspeaker designers in the world, their subs are often pretty poor value. A lot of the bigger manufacturers seem to have the same problem with their subs. I think a lot people just buy them cause they're there and they "match" the mains, and thus they can justify a higher price than what the objective performance would naturally dictate.

7050C is ~$1,200 here and lists a max output of 103db and a -6 of 24Hz. Compare that to something like the Rythmik FV15 for $1,300 and its max output of 118db and capable of pushing out ~100db at 12.5Hz. Of course, given the low tech required to make good subs, DIY reigns supreme in terms of value. I'm a bit skeptical of many DIY builds when it comes loudspeakers(hard to compete with the R&D of the big guys), but for subwoofers, they're at the top of the heap.

While they are poor value, I should remind you that good and cheap brands that aren't made in China like Rythmik or HSU are US only (yes, there's BK in Europe). All of these brands also suffer from the usual lack of balanced connection, lack of data (for BK) and no real international support. The Genelecs having all the advantages of Genelec plus the small size, builtin crossover and DSP for the 73x0 models doesn't make them seem that expensive to me; the real problem is how fast the prices climb within the range, otherwise the 7360 and higher would be attractive models.
The high price might also be due to the extreme surround connectivity, useless to most of us.

 

[richard12511]

The FR curve simply isn't about maximum power.

While they are poor value, I should remind you that good and cheap brands that aren't made in China like Rythmik or HSU are US only (yes, there's BK in Europe). All of these brands also suffer from the usual lack of balanced connection, lack of data (for BK) and no real international support. The Genelecs having all the advantages of Genelec plus the small size, builtin crossover and DSP for the 73x0 models doesn't make them seem that expensive to me; the real problem is how fast the prices climb within the range, otherwise the 7360 and higher would be attractive models.
The high price might also be due to the extreme surround connectivity, useless to most of us.

Didn't know Rythmik was US only. That stinks. I know JTR will ship international, but they don't make any small subs(afaik). Not familiar with BK, but that's unfortunate that they don't provide good data. JTR, Rythmik, HSU, and PSA(to much lesser extent) all actually provide better data than what even Genelec gives. Typically they do this by sending new models off to a third party(databass) for measurements. Databass does an excellent job of providing all different types of measurements for the models they receive.

https://data-bass.com/#/systems?_k=s12w1z I like that page for comparing different subs, and clicking on one of the links will show you a huge suite of measurements.

I also agree that cheaper Genelec subs tend to offer more value than their flagship subs.

 

[CDMC]

System is for music ... Trying not to repeat myself. I have come not to worry about the FR linearity when it comes to subwoofer. Maximum SPL and general distortion behavior seem to me the most important attributes. A linear 20~100 Hz plus or minus .5 dB subwoofer @ 0.5% THD and IM but that is only capable of 95 dB within its passband may not fare well as well in a room as one capable of say 15 to 100 Hz plus or minus 5 dB @ 2% THD and IM but capable of 110 dB in its passband.
I don't know how to measure Harmonic Distortion for subs or speakers for that matter, I have never heard an instance of the 3 SUB-1500 having any issue, reproducing the real low in Aquaman, Blade Runner 2049 or Interstellar ( All very loud, bass-heavy movies). I suppose they should be at ease having to reproduce the occasional 16 Hz fro an organ symphony or hip-hop tracks in a medium-sized room. I simply don't know. Where I am you research a lot and buy once. We don't have the luxury of returning products, The hassle is beyond comprehension. Thus my numerous and repetitive questions

For the parameters you want, I would suggest 105 db would be a better alternative, as we are less sensitive to bass and most run their subs about 5db hot. Two L12s will get you 105db above 30hz, but may come up short below that. That will be offset by the fact that your lowest room mode is at 29hz, below which you will get a 12db octave gain. Normally it is less than that, but you have concrete walls. You could end up with system flat to 10hz. That said, even if not, there is so little content under 30hz in 99.9% of music, it is for almost all purposes irrelevant.

 

[stevenswall]

Decisions decisions... I'm looking at Genelec subs, ideally a pair of 7370 12" ones for about $6500.

The alternative is to spend half that on a pair of Rythmik G22 dual opposed 12" subs, or two 15" ported Rythmik subs.

How can one compare SPL levels between these different things? If the Genelecs have higher SPL levels at 20hz, maybe they are worth it to pair with my 8260 set because then I can use GLM instead of getting something with Dirac Bass Control.

 

[Mnyb]

I think it's all about the implemetation . Ie not trying to get a free lunch by using bassreflex to get lower extension .

My Rhytmic F15HP has double ports and one can be stuffed so you have a choice of tuning frequncy and also a higpass filter to set . The thing is Port tuning is very low and the sub is very big . With such a low tuning ( I think between 14-20Hz ) it does not matter much that it is bassreflex for SQ and it's a low Q design so it is "dry" per default and not boomy (you can also alter Q by settings on the sub) .

Yeh we also have some kind of boomy "fart box" bandpass sub from Canton in our HT setup , it makes impressive explosions and space ship sounds for its price and size, but not music

 

[luft262]

If you go SVS you might not need the mini DSP, because they come with onboard DSP via the SVS app!

 

[Flak]

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