RME ADI-2 DAC FS or the new Fiio K19

[Verig]

I know RME is a favorite of this forum, but I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to dismiss the K19. If it truly delivers on the advertised specs, then it bests the ADI-2 in just about every way.

One part is about trust and software. Have you seen Fiio R7? That's pretty hideous.
Also, 31 bands is totally over the top. I don't see Fiio really concentrating on useful features or polishing them. And of course no safety features. It's just bits and pieces for way over $1000.
It has plenty of power and I have no doubts about amp and dac section. There's no reason they'd be off spec. Machining looks nice too. But for this price I need more.

 

[Zathras]

When you buy Filo you get a defined set of features. They will not improve over time.

This is not true. Just recently Fiio added a global 10 band peq to the R7, R9, and a few of their DAPs via firmware update. They do improve their products.

 

[Zathras]

Where is the Filo English manual? All I found on the website was 4 pages of Chinese?

Looks like the "Quick Start Guide" on their website has both Chinese and English. I agree the manual that comes with the ADI-2 is impressive, most products these days just include a thin quick start guide, and you have to go to the website or forums for more info.

I'm not partial to one manufacturer or another, I've owned an RME ADI-2 as well as products from Fiio and others, and they each have their strengths and weaknesses. I just think the K19 looks promising and I look forward to seeing some reviews and/or measurements.

 

[Dialectic]

A data point, for what it's worth:

My ADI-2 DAC failed after a few months, and I was only able to obtain a warranty replacement after lots of intervention by an excellent dealer.

 

[johny_2000]

My ADI-2 DAC failed after a few months, and I was only able to obtain a warranty replacement after lots of intervention by an excellent dealer.

What was wrong with it?

 

[Dialectic]

What was wrong with it?

Defective op amp

 

[jkim]

Wow, so much information so far. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experiences!

I have decided to order the RME (DAC only version).

I will use the RME to drive my Genelec desktop monitor/subwoofer setup as well.

5-band PEQ will be sufficient for my use. I personally think EQ'ing is a must for virtually ANY headphones (and speakers), BUT at the same time headphones/speakers in need of too many filters are not worth having.

 

[Verig]

Same idea here. Five is plenty for PEQ. I'm not a fan of multitude of high Q adjustments and not a fan of gear that needs those. Genelecs certainly won't need.

 

[Jimbob54]

Same idea here. Five is plenty for PEQ. I'm not a fan of multitude of high Q adjustments and not a fan of gear that needs those. Genelecs certainly won't need.

You actually get 7 bands with the rme as long as you use B and T controls as high and low shelves. They are configurable with freq and slope in the menus and even easier using the gui on the remote app. Can be tied to an eq profile or independent

 

[Daeveren]

Someone trying to compare the Filo to the RME ADI-2 can't possibly understand how great the Loudness feature really is on RME.

Can you explain the feature and what it does to music? How does it "enhance" the music in a way that other devices can't?

You actually get 7 bands with the rme as long as you use B and T controls as high and low shelves. They are configurable with freq and slope in the menus and even easier using the gui on the remote app. Can be tied to an eq profile or independent

I would appreciate if you were to say more about having 7 bands. Is it 7 bands per channel? I'm torn between the Fiio and the RME and I need more than 5 PEQ per channel for my room calibration EQ for speakers (I don't use EQ on headphones) - and judging only about this, the Fiio is the way to go. I hear so many great things about the RME product that I'd even go for it if I could get 7 PEQ per channel.

Also, does anyone knows how "destructive" for the audio quality is the PEQ implementation in the RME product? I read recently that Fiio's implementation is done differently and comes for the first time without distortion, through their novel DSP thingie. Any help on this specific part would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Verig]

Also, does anyone knows how "destructive" for the audio quality is the PEQ implementation in the RME product? I read recently that Fiio's implementation is done differently and comes for the first time without distortion, through their novel DSP thingie. Any help on this specific part would be greatly appreciated.

Beware the dragon that is marketing. Everything is always "novel". I'm sure it's more clean than some devices/apps/plugins of old but compared to other well implemented solutions? DSPs and good EQs are not new anymore. And even in old days the pros always outweighted the cons when you really needed an EQ.

Amper42 did a very good intro. But if you have need for more then by all means buy Fiio. I'm a bit biased because everytime a company introduces something new (to them) it tends... not to work as planned and needs a few updates for the first year at least. And this is the most interesting part, how is their product support. But that's me and bias because of my work. if Fiio reviews well in the areas you need then ok ok of course.

 

[johny_2000]

I'm a bit biased because everytime a company introduces something new (to them) it tends... not to work as planned and needs a few updates for the first year at least.

And this is the main problem of all these companies (FiiO, Topping, SMSL). They do not maintain the same production model over several years of the life cycle to eliminate all software and hardware problems. Instead, they switch to a new model with a different design and components. And the circle repeats.

 

[darth]

I came across a subjective comparison here

FIIO K19, the flagship desktop DAC and headphone amplifier

Hi, A little disappointed in the mixed reviews about the K19. I do not own it, but I was giving it a thought... I am really surprised with comments that says that it does nto sound super preicse and detailed. I own the Shanling EH-3 that sports the same DAC chip. And... my oh my... It can...

www.head-fi.org

 

[tb753917]

The only headphone I've got /tried on the standard rme adi 2 dac that it struggles remotely with is the hifiman HE6 (the se v2 version). So unless you are looking at those, Susvara or some of the other ludicrously insensitive models (other standard Hifiman etc are fine) then the dac fs is the perfect device .

More than enough for 300/600 ohm dynamic headphones like the 800s, beyers etc.

@Jimbob54 I am wondering if you tried hifiman Arya Organic, DCA E3 and Aeon 2 Noire? Will the amp of ADI-2 DAC FS sufficient to drive these headphones with authority?

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Are you sure 31 PEQ at +/-24dB is enough? Wouldn't more be better?
Fiio only has a measly 8W output! beware, adjusting one of those PEQ bands to +24dB, you need the same in preamp cut, you then need a lot more gain & power!
Just saying . . .

 

[Zibi]

The only headphone I've got /tried on the standard rme adi 2 dac that it struggles remotely with is the hifiman HE6 (the se v2 version). So unless you are looking at those, Susvara or some of the other ludicrously insensitive models (other standard Hifiman etc are fine) then the dac fs is the perfect device .

More than enough for 300/600 ohm dynamic headphones like the 800s, beyers etc.

Agree, I would say for ADI-2 DAC FS avoid any headphones with impedance below 32 OHM. IMO, after several tests with multiple headphones DAC FS can't deliver current with necessary precision in that impedance region. The result is weak (or lack of) bass slam and flat and shallow soundstage.

 

[Verig]

I came across a subjective comparison here

FIIO K19, the flagship desktop DAC and headphone amplifier

Hi, A little disappointed in the mixed reviews about the K19. I do not own it, but I was giving it a thought... I am really surprised with comments that says that it does nto sound super preicse and detailed. I own the Shanling EH-3 that sports the same DAC chip. And... my oh my... It can...

www.head-fi.org

"Hifiman HE1000se (easy to drive planar, RME low power, vol. -26 ~ -29 / Fiio high gain, vol. 66 ~ 71)
DCA Expanse (hard to drive planar, RME high power, vol. -27 ~ -29 / Fiio super high gain, vol. 57 ~ 62)"

Does Fiio have this different gain and volume settings? Seems a bit odd. But then again, no matter, both work well.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

Agree, I would say for ADI-2 DAC FS avoid any headphones with impedance below 32 OHM...

Based on what? Cannot say anything about <32 Ohm, but Focal Clear/Celestee and HifiMan 1000 are driven effortlessly. All these are below 40 Ohms.

 

[Zibi]

Based on what? Cannot say anything about <32 Ohm, but Focal Clear/Celestee and HifiMan 1000 are driven effortlessly. All these are below 40 Ohms.

Based on the OHMs law. The lower the impedance the higher is the current delivery requirement. Even worse, demand for power (current delivery) grows exponentially with declining frequences. That is why the first victim for low impedance headphones when connected to and amp with power limitations is bass impact. RME on page 12 of it’s DAC FS manual clearly describes that the unit switches to “Extreme Power” mode for loads below 32 Ohms and able to deliver 1.5 Watts @ 32 Ohm. While I salute RME for advanced features like DC protection, automatic volume control for different loads, and current protection circuit, low impedance still puts an extra requirements and maintaining great SINAD results in that region is difficult. And few headphones - Dan Clark for example go down to 12 or 14 Ohms for Noire and Expanse respectively. On the other hand, there are plenty of very good headphones to choose from with impedance that put amps in their optimal power delivery regions. You have mentioned few great headphones (Focal Clear/Celestee and HifiMan 1000) - all are above 32 Ohms. Also, the fact that they can be driven "effortlessly" does not mean that you are getting the best out of them.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

Based on the OHMs law. The lower the impedance the higher is the current delivery requirement. Even worse, demand for power (current delivery) grows exponentially with declining frequences. That is why the first victim for low impedance headphones when connected to and amp with power limitations is bass impact. RME on page 12 of it’s DAC FS manual clearly describes that the unit switches to “Extreme Power” mode for loads below 32 Ohms and able to deliver 1.5 Watts @ 32 Ohm. While I salute RME for advanced features like DC protection, automatic volume control for different loads, and current protection circuit, low impedance still puts an extra requirements and maintaining great SINAD results in that region is difficult. And few headphones - Dan Clark for example go down to 12 or 14 Ohms for Noire and Expanse respectively. On the other hand, there are plenty of very good headphones to choose from with impedance that put amps in their optimal power delivery regions. You have mentioned few great headphones (Focal Clear/Celestee and HifiMan 1000) - all are above 32 Ohms. Also, the fact that they can be driven "effortlessly" does not mean that you are getting the best out of them.

To each his own. Go get something that suits you.

I wouldn't buy a headphone that cannot be driven by a decent amp.

Anyway, I read the RME handles the DCs pretty well. I would not buy these, because there aural quality is dearly paid for with limitations in other areas like loe efficiency.