Review and Measurements of the Topping D70 DAC

[chalex]

I'm confused...

Were the comparison between the D70 and dx3 done blind and level matched?

What is this other test, and why did it come up?

Regarding the other...audition? test?... I will ask again why you believe they would/should sound different? You said they were chosen for their different sound. How did you go about determining they had a different sound to begin with?

Different chips and engineering shouldn't change the transparency. If they sound different, you may have some kind of voltage or impedance mismatch...which is especially important with headphones.

A well engineered DAC will be transparent. Common differences in filter choices may have some identifiable impact for some, but that doesn't change the basic truth of it all, which is that an apple dongle, my LG phone, my chromecast audio, my dx3, my d70, my d50s, my Integra preamp, my ancient krell preamp, and probably the headphone out jack on my Nvidia Shield remote control would be indistinguishable in a properly done listening test.

... and Realtek on every motherboard ?
I know how to make sound BORIZSONIC NXC01 - throw it in the empty metal dumpster !

 

[BDWoody]

Some RMAA tests with Topping dx3 pro and D70 (RCA , XLR) .

That's great and all...but what exactly are you hearing that is shown in those graphs?

Do you understand what those graphs mean?

You aren't really answering my questions... I'm not sure what I'm missing...but it isn't a difference in sound between DAC's that measure that well...

 

[Veri]

Some RMAA tests with Topping dx3 pro and D70 (RCA , XLR) .

What ADC is used for these measurements?

 

[chalex]

What ADC is used for these measurements?

ADC is not very good . Creative X-fi titanium HD . But the difference seems visible . But most importantly - heard . This difference is audible even on my mediocre equipment .

 

[chalex]

That's great and all...but what exactly are you hearing that is shown in those graphs?

Do you understand what those graphs mean?

You aren't really answering my questions... I'm not sure what I'm missing...but it isn't a difference in sound between DAC's that measure that well...

BORIZSONIC NXC01 I didn't measure - just listened . But my opinion about him invariably-garbage . Measurements are needed for manufacturers and enthusiasts . And to find the causes of sound problems when these problems are heard .

 

[BDWoody]

BORIZSONIC NXC01 I didn't measure - just listened . But my opinion about him invariably-garbage . Measurements are needed for manufacturers and enthusiasts . And to find the causes of sound problems when these problems are heard .

When the measurements show that the differences are real, but are at a level that is inaudible...then they are inaudible.

The dx3 and d70, that you originally were talking about, show differences that would be inaudible. To actually test this (for these or any other DAC's, amplifiers, cables, etc) would require going through a level matched blind test. Doesn't seem like you are interested in that, so I will leave you to your ongoing ride on the money drain train.
.

 

[chalex]

When the measurements show that the differences are real, but are at a level that is inaudible...then they are inaudible.

The dx3 and d70, that you originally were talking about, show differences that would be inaudible. To actually test this (for these or any other DAC's, amplifiers, cables, etc) would require going through a level matched blind test. Doesn't seem like you are interested in that, so I will leave you to your ongoing ride on the money drain train.
.

Oh, I saw some quotes from You ! I will quote one of my favorite writers, Mark Twain : "To be happy, you have to live in your own Paradise! Did you think that the same Paradise could satisfy all people without exception?"

 

[BDWoody]

Oh, I saw some quotes from You ! I will quote one of my favorite writers, Mark Twain : "To be happy, you have to live in your own Paradise! Did you think that the same Paradise could satisfy all people without exception?"

When the differences can't be measured or detected under controlled circumstances, I'd say it's more like your own private Idaho...but if a self deceived paradise is what you are after, then I'm not going to try to tell you not to enjoy every second.

Problem comes when you expect others to buy into your subjective, psychoacoustically unsupportable idea of paradise...

 

[chalex]

When the differences can't be measured or detected under controlled circumstances, I'd say it's more like your own private Idaho...but if a self deceived paradise is what you are after, then I'm not going to try to tell you not to enjoy every second.

Problem comes when you expect others to buy into your subjective, psychoacoustically unsupportable idea of paradise...

Thank you for the fascinating conversation . But I never learned how to make the D70 sound good . And I don't believe even AudioPrecision measurements . Thank You D70 !

 

[Julf]

And I don't believe even AudioPrecision measurements .

So you believe that your own subjective, uncontrolled and unverified perceptions are more credible than objective measurements?

By the way, do you ever use a measuring tape, a spirit level, scales or a car speedometer?

 

[chalex]

So you believe that your own subjective, uncontrolled and unverified perceptions are more credible than objective measurements?

By the way, do you ever use a measuring tape, a spirit level, scales or a car speedometer?

I work in a metrological laboratory at a large enterprise . Really. And every day I use reference devices for calibration of measuring instruments . About uncontrolled perception-I do not use psychotropic substances . I trust my own hearing . And only then RMAA .

 

[Julf]

About uncontrolled perception-I do not use psychotropic substances . I trust my own hearing.

I suggest you watch/listen to the first 5 minutes of this video.

 

[chosen_too]

Guys, how many similar subjective opinions do you need to confirm d70 bass problem?

 

[BDWoody]

Guys, how many similar subjective opinions do you need to confirm d70 bass problem?

We just need one of them to turn into something meaningful.

Surely one person could take one for the team and show how we are the deluded ones, with a verifiable controlled test...?

No?

How many times can inaudible be demonstrated to be inaudible?

If you can hear it, you can measure it.

 

[chosen_too]

We just need one of them to turn into something meaningful.

Just listen it)

 

[BDWoody]

Just listen it)

Just did.

Didn't notice a problem.

What now? Who's right and who's wrong?

 

[wadec22]

audio science review

 

[Veri]

Guys, how many similar subjective opinions do you need to confirm d70 bass problem?

A friend of mine has no problem with bass using D70 with his studio monitors, just to add to the anecdotal evidence of "not" confirming the "problem"

 

[Julf]

How many times can inaudible be demonstrated to be inaudible?

Hundreds, thousands, it doesn't matter - if someone is convinced their ears (and brain) are infallible, they won't believe you.

 

[maxxevv]

A friend of mine has no problem with bass using D70 with his studio monitors, just to add to the anecdotal evidence of "not" confirming the "problem"

I did mention before, it also depends on what context the comparisons were done.

Some people listened to devices that may have a treble roll off, at a certain volume, then listened to a well-measuring one. To compensate for the none roll-off on a well measuring DAC, the volume on the well measuring DAC get's turned down relatively instead, which effectively lowers it bass response as a result as the volumes were not matched properly.

And something like a D70 ends up catching the "bass light" moniker instead.

The other extreme being distortion being interpreted as 'bass' and the inverse happens.