-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Review and Measurements of the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
BillG
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2018
- Messages
- 1,449
- Likes
- 4,818
Yes, indeed. And they appear to have a simple and honest refund policy. Given that, as very competent users have already stated, that you actually have to work to lower the measured performance of their base design vs using the simplest implementation of the basic ESS chip in the latest example, it could be that they target for a "house sound" that just feels a bit different than the rest and that their customer base may like. From different starting points, this looks very similar to my non-expert eyes. Breaking two things through incompetence is possible. But breaking two different starting points in a very similar way seems a bit unlikely, no?
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
This is the type of statement I am talking about. Comparing a "dongle" with one input (a proprietary Apple connector) and a headphone output to this device is just pointless. They are completely different devices with different purposes.
I can see 4 analogue inputs, 5 digital inputs and two sets of outputs. It's a domestic HiFi component, not a simple portable D/A headphone adapter created by a company who chose to remove a standard connector in order to make more money from their customers.
Stick to the facts. The snide comments from left field do nothing to enhance the site, the members or it credibility.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #85
What is this if not false advertising?
Or:
This is state-of-the-art digital reproduction?
Indeed I can't find a single paragraph on their website about this product that is accurate and not misleading.
The published specs are all but buried in there. And at any rate, they do not provide any data for the DAC subsystem.
I just read your tag line "ATTENTION! Please allow 175 hours of Burn-In time before criticizing my posts.". The nice lady at PS Audio asked me if the unit had been "burnt in" for 200 hours when I called to return it. I didn't want to be impolite so I just said "yes". Lol.
GrimSurfer
Major Contributor
- Joined
- May 25, 2019
- Messages
- 1,238
- Likes
- 1,484
Not for long.
I cannot wait to see how they butcher these drivers
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Rather obvious if you ask me:
Their published THD is terrible, I agree, and 20 times worse than the first CD players in 1983 and 100 times worse than some D/A converters you test. But the facts are, they are not misrepresenting the performance in what little specifications they provide. They are clearly "voicing" the product to be the way it is.
Their blurb is creative to say the least. State of the art is, by its very nature, a constantly moving target and I don't think you could tie that down as misrepresentation. It's typical of the gushing copy written by audio companies since day one. Specifications are what count to me, and testing against them.
Do I want to buy their gear? No chance. I don't buy hype, stories or the words of "Gurus". But I think it's important to be a voice of reason as I watch an angry mob of group-think torch bearers, drag down yet another "review" thread.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #90
Ah, no. This is the page you get to when you search for it:
See the SPEC tab is missing? Only when you click on more info does it then give you the page you posted.
Even when you get there, percent numbers for distortion just don't register with people. Who remembers if good spec is 0.02% or 0.002% or 0.0002%. There is a reason people are shocked by my reviewed even though some of the similar data is on the website. The one or two mentions for distortion are just not seen or understood by people.
GrimSurfer
Major Contributor
- Joined
- May 25, 2019
- Messages
- 1,238
- Likes
- 1,484
I believe this sort of thing is so pervasive in audio, that the entire industry has become corrupted by it. There are exceptions, of course, but companies are playing way faster with the truth than they did in the 70s when the FTC finally stepped in during the power wars.
Fifty years later (has it been that long?) and we're back to where the BS began. Only worse. Much worse.
I think the only way this is going to change is if so much damning evidence exists that people take this to their Congressmen. It's got to be made political... and to the extent needed where is it more of a liability to ignore it than confront it.
I can't see other countries regulatory bodies taking on a leadership role. Sorry guys but NZ, Australia, Canada are too small, the EU is too messed up, and the UK has enough problems to deal with ATM than subjecting its small specialists to the countervailing penalties that would be applied as the hornet's nest hits the ground.
Regrettably, the test cases will have to be foreign companies, even though domestic ones are as egregiously stretching the truth as the offshore ones.
And please, let's not have any silly talk about involvement by the AES. These guys appear to have been on the sidelines (and maybe in a pocket or two) watching this happen over the past few decades.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2018
- Messages
- 1,137
- Likes
- 1,499
Anyone else think this is what the iPhone might be like if it were designed entirely by Jony Ive? PSA can produce a decent feature set, chassis, UI, and ad copy. They just don't know when to stop themselves & hire outside help.
One focus seems to be that their products need to stand out withgimmicks unique features. I trust that the DSD FPGA or Gain Cell works better in ad copy than in ASR's testing. Paraphrased as: "Anyone can put a Hypex module in a box, but we design unique solutions. You don't want to buy the same stuff everyone else sells, do you?" Too bad they missed the Hypex buffer memo.
If this sounds wrong, look at the Sprout review again. When the low price point simultaneously forces (engineering) & allows (marketing) outside electronics, the stuff works a lot better. OTOH, every time the budget allows PSA to run with a novel idea, Amir kills an innocent panther.
Everything's consistent here. Inevitable, really. It's the audio-design version of getting your Maserati up to 185 before checking that you're heading the right direction.
Finally, @amirm, please stop beating on that "zero loss" comment. This thing clearly adds a bunch of noise & distortion, but no thing's really lost, is it?
One focus seems to be that their products need to stand out with
If this sounds wrong, look at the Sprout review again. When the low price point simultaneously forces (engineering) & allows (marketing) outside electronics, the stuff works a lot better. OTOH, every time the budget allows PSA to run with a novel idea, Amir kills an innocent panther.
Everything's consistent here. Inevitable, really. It's the audio-design version of getting your Maserati up to 185 before checking that you're heading the right direction.
Finally, @amirm, please stop beating on that "zero loss" comment. This thing clearly adds a bunch of noise & distortion, but no thing's really lost, is it?
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 20,775
- Likes
- 37,640
Some of the signal is lost below the noise.Anyone else think this is what the iPhone might be like if it were designed entirely by Jony Ive? PSA can produce a decent feature set, chassis, UI, and ad copy. They just don't know when to stop themselves & hire outside help.
One focus seems to be that their products need to stand out withgimmicksunique features. I trust that the DSD FPGA or Gain Cell works better in ad copy than in ASR's testing. Paraphrased as: "Anyone can put a Hypex module in a box, but we design unique solutions. You don't want to buy the same stuff everyone else sells, do you?" Too bad they missed the Hypex buffer memo.
If this sounds wrong, look at the Sprout review again. When the low price point simultaneously forces (engineering) & allows (marketing) outside electronics, the stuff works a lot better. OTOH, every time the budget allows PSA to run with a novel idea, Amir kills an innocent panther.
Everything's consistent here. Inevitable, really. It's the audio-design version of getting your Maserati up to 185 before checking that you're heading the right direction.
Finally, @amirm, please stop beating on that "zero loss" comment. This thing clearly adds a bunch of noise & distortion, but no thing's really lost, is it?
gikigill
Senior Member
Now available in USB-C too.
https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MU7E2FE/A/usb-c-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter
This is the only Apple item in my household. PC and Android all the way.
And boy does it sound good for the price.
Or people like me who have been tought that harmonic distortion below 0,2% is inaudible with music and below 0.02% irreleveant in general.
The point is - we are not listening to the electric signal, but soundwaves!
https://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/lt/
Last edited:
OP
- Thread Starter
- #98
We had a discussion on this already: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/distortion-listening-test.8152/
It is not clear what they are measuring as far as distortion.
In general, you cannot make statements like that about audibility of distortion regarding THD. The spectrum of noise and distortion matters a lot as does content, one's critical listening ability, etc.
I can tell you that 0.2% is quite high and can be readily audible. See this double blind test I recently ran: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ible-difference-between-dacs.9207/post-237713
The distortion and noise there was 0.016% and quite audible on weak signals.
They do say their products are ' state of the art' exactly that was said in the video put up here in one of the other PS audio product threads.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
True, they do say that.
My understanding of the term in relation to HiFi, is that it can be used, requires no corroboration or proof and really doesn't mean anything in real terms as the state of the art is constantly evolving. It's a grossly overused marketing term.
My favourite in the past was "newly developed" for every circuit element, component or design. Most brochures had "newly developed" on every second product. Sometimes the component they referenced was decades old.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
