Review and Measurements of Schiit Jotunheim and iFi iDSD Black Label DACs and Headphone Amps

[dir]

I did not have experience with Schiit converters, but I'm not suprised by bad linearity on low level singals. Its typical for R-2R conversion.
Also I'd like to share my personal observations about Micro DSD.
Generally speaking, converter has three modes of a digital filter. I understand that you measured the Standard. The Minimum Phase gives the expected frequency drop. The strangest one is Bit-Perfect, which for some reason is recommended for listening by the iFi in manual. The frequency response here has too early drop, the aliasing noise is not suppressed at all, and the noise level rises above the level of -100 dB, which makes it meaningless to reproduce 24-bit content, in fact with such a level of noise Bit-Perfect provides 16-bit resolution only.

That graph shows an example of what a low-level sine (-90 dB) turns into Bit-Perfect mode

Since the chip DSD1793 provides only two filters Sharp and Slow - i.e. Standart and Minimun Phase in our case, then, probably Bit-Perfect is a DAC operation in NOS mode with filters disabled.
The manufacturer emphasizes that at a frequency of 384 kHz DAC works in Bit-Perfect mode, but actually it does not make sense on the specified chip. The sampling limit for the DSD1793 is 200 kHz, so any DXD will be filtered at a frequency of 100 kHz, which is confirmed by the measurements. The format limit for such a device is PCM 192 kHz and DSD64, all that is higher is just the characteristics of the receiver, not the true DAC mode.
Also i was noted on the graphs of iFi micro iDSD is catching 50 Hz from power supply of Sony laptop via USB. Of course, measurements shows as a very small tip, below the hearing threshold value, but for clear result my laptop should be switched to an autonomous power supply mode.

 

[Dismayed]

Hi guys. I only made an account today but I've been lurking here for quite a while. I was stupid enough it seems to have bought this amp last autumn. A few weeks ago I started noticing the Humm you mention in this review. For me it only occurs when switching inputs from the connected dac to say rca where nothing is connected and touching the volume knob. Shouldn't the issue persist on all inputs regardless if anything is connected or not? Should I be worried for this to be a safety hazzard? I'd really hate to have to send it back and it's something they can't even fix. I live in Sweden so I ordered it from their Europe affiliates but if I have to send it back to has to go all the way to California. Aka it will be gone for months. Good God I feel stupid, usually I always research things I buy to death.
Edit: it seems to go away or at least not be audible when connecting my record player through the rca in..hmmm. If I really concentrate I think I can hear it vaguely with the headphones on with dac input at high gain with the volume at max with nothing playing.

I fell for their marketing, too. But the gear did work, and I never did electrocute myself. So maybe I was lucky. So perhaps Amir will advise on the safety aspects.

I have, however, sold off all of my Schiit on eBay.

 

[IdiotCustomer]

I fell for their marketing, too. But the gear did work, and I never did electrocute myself. So maybe I was lucky. So perhaps Amir will advise on the safety aspects.

I have, however, sold off all of my Schiit on eBay.

Yeah I hope he can give some advice when he gets the time. I can live with the shame of falling for the marketing and buying a mediocre product for the price point. But if it's really dangerous and could zapp people I have to get rid of it and save up for a new amp and dac. Money is kind of tight now in the summer so that would be a bummer. If I get hurt I don't really care, but friends come over sometimes and use my gear. I wouldn't want to gamble on maybe hurting them.

 

[Headphonaholic]

I potentially missed it, but I'm curious how the Jotunheim performs when you bypass the dac module. I'm guessing it probably won't matter that much. I too fell for the marketing and hype on this one. I've been considering selling it for a few weeks now simply due to the fact that Schiit as a company isn't something I wish to support. This is another nail in the coffin as far as I am concerned.

The thing I am wondering is, what is a good alternative desktop amp in this price bracket? The Lake People G109-S and Little Labs Monotor come to mind. I've been waiting for Massdrop to drop the Liquid Carbon X again since at $300 it seems like a potential good replacement for the Jotunheim.

 

[amirm]

I potentially missed it, but I'm curious how the Jotunheim performs when you bypass the dac module.

You haven't missed it as I have not posted those results.

I will see if I can get a few charts done today to post.

 

[amirm]

The thing I am wondering is, what is a good alternative desktop amp in this price bracket? The Lake People G109-S and Little Labs Monotor come to mind. I've been waiting for Massdrop to drop the Liquid Carbon X again since at $300 it seems like a potential good replacement for the Jotunheim.

I like to test more products in this class to find that answer too. So hopefully members send me a few more to test. I looked up the Lake People and it is over $500 so for that price, you could get the iFi iDSD Black.

 

[amirm]

The strangest one is Bit-Perfect, which for some reason is recommended for listening by the iFi in manual.

I too found that weird and did my first test of an iFi DAC that way. As you, I was surprised by its measurements and switched to standard or whatever the other mode is.

 

[amirm]

The strangest one is Bit-Perfect, which for some reason is recommended for listening by the iFi in manual.

I too found that weird and did my first test of an iFi DAC that way. As you, I was surprised by its measurements and switched to standard or whatever the other mode is.

 

[Headphonaholic]

I like to test more products in this class to find that answer too. So hopefully members send me a few more to test. I looked up the Lake People and it is over $500 so for that price, you could get the iFi iDSD Black.

I had intended to send my Jotunheim to you and never did... apologies! If I get one of these other ones I'll for real send it to ya haha.

 

[amirm]

It's still differential, i.e. two inverse signals per channel, with the same noise rejection benefits.

The noise reduction comes in the balanced transmission lines and CMRR of the receiver. Just changing the transmitter to differential doesn't provide those benefits.

Importantly, the source impedance of these two products is near zero. It will be very hard to induce any noise voltage into the link at such a low impedance. This is one of the reasons why we don't shield speaker wires.

 

[IdiotCustomer]

Amir is the Humm issue enough of a safety hazzard for me to sell the amp or return it to schiit for repair if it's even repairable? From what I've read here it seems like its a design flaw and can't really be resolved afterwards. I'd rather not send it by costly delivery from Sweden to California just for Schiit to say "aay lmao it's nothing wrong with the unit"

 

[Tircuit]

Amir is the Humm issue enough of a safety hazzard for me to sell the amp or return it to schiit for repair if it's even repairable? From what I've read here it seems like its a design flaw and can't really be resolved afterwards. I'd rather not send it by costly delivery from Sweden to California just for Schiit to say "aay lmao it's nothing wrong with the unit"

I doubt anyone is going to risk opining in whether it's safe or not. I'd ask the manufacturer on Monday - - they should fix or replace it for you once they verify the defect.

 

[amirm]

Amir is the Humm issue enough of a safety hazzard for me to sell the amp or return it to schiit for repair if it's even repairable? From what I've read here it seems like its a design flaw and can't really be resolved afterwards. I'd rather not send it by costly delivery from Sweden to California just for Schiit to say "aay lmao it's nothing wrong with the unit"

It is pretty trivial to fix. One just needs to sand off the two parts of the case so that they make electrical contact. They would be internal parts of the case so won't change the look of the unit at all.

Getting Schiit to accept this flaw may be hard given their past reluctance to accept customer issues. If the owner give me permission, I can try to fix this one and then take pictures for you to replicate. As it is right now, I doubt that it is worth dealing with Schiit until they acknowledge and offer to fix this problem. I am sure by now they are aware of my work so maybe an answer is coming.

 

[IdiotCustomer]

I doubt anyone is going to risk opining in whether it's safe or not. I'd ask the manufacturer on Monday - - they should fix or replace it for you once they verify the defect.

I've contacted schiit and they advice me to send it for them to investigate. But the thing is I have to pay customs fees to both send it and later receive it. Plus the shipping and the money I have to pay for the repairs. That will easily add up to at least $300. And I will be without an amp for a couple of months. I'm probably better off just buying a different amp from another manufacturer or just gambling with the odds

 

[amirm]

I've contacted schiit and they advice me to send it for them to investigate. But the thing is I have to pay customs fees to both send it and later receive it. Plus the shipping and the money I have to pay for the repairs. That will easily add up to at least $300. And I will be without an amp for a couple of months. I'm probably better off just buying a different amp from another manufacturer or just gambling with the odds

Well, given all of this then you should fix it yourself. Have you tested yours with multimeter to see if it is having this problem?

 

[IdiotCustomer]

It is pretty trivial to fix. One just needs to sand off the two parts of the case so that they make electrical contact. They would be internal parts of the case so won't change the look of the unit at all.

Getting Schiit to accept this flaw may be hard given their past reluctance to accept customer issues. If the owner give me permission, I can try to fix this one and then take pictures for you to replicate. As it is right now, I doubt that it is worth dealing with Schiit until they acknowledge and offer to fix this problem. I am sure by now they are aware of my work so maybe an answer is coming.

Ok then I will probably go for that route instead if you manage to fix it and try to replicate. Thank you for taking the time to test shit like this (pun intended)

 

[IdiotCustomer]

Well, given all of this then you should fix it yourself. Have you tested yours with multimeter to see if it is having this problem?

Not yet, I'll have to go buy one tomorrow as the stores here are all closed for the day

 

[amirm]

So I woke up today thinking it would be easy to compare to analog input to USB not realizing that the test setup changes and graphs become incompatible. So I had to make two different measurements. Worst part is deciding what analog input level to use. I picked 2 volts but results may vary depending on what your DAC outputs and at any rate, may not be comparable to what the internal DAC produces. Regardless, here is the results of the intermodulation distortion:

We see a reduction in noise level using analog in (gray thick curve). But then it is clipping toward the end which says that I am overdriving it versus the DAC driving it, and hence the reason noise is less dominant.

Also, the analog generator in my APx555 analyzer is better than any DAC so the comparison becomes rather unfair to iFi iDSD Black which is using its DAC (has no analog input to test).

Anyway, taken at face value it does better than using its internal DAC.

 

[amirm]

Not yet, I'll have to go buy one tomorrow as the stores here are all closed for the day

I had one person report that theirs was grounded so perhaps yours is too.

Answering your original question, the risk of personal injury is exceptionally small. So for your own use I would not worry about it. The question becomes selling it without giving due notice to a buyer. And whether anyone would buy it if you gave them notice. If I were you and the problem is there, I would fix it and tell people that it has been fixed to deal with this issue.

 

[Jimster480]

I forgot to mention. If you don't know where to buy the jumper cable, I have three versions I am offering for sale:

1. The yellow one you see in the picture. You can buy them for 10 cents on ebay but because I will be selling them, the price is $10.

2. A 99% oxygen-free cable with hand forged alligator clips. I will be offering these for $399.

3. The ultimate version made out of free-radical-free insulation, cryogenically treated, electron aligned conductors. It is built by nude virgins on a remote island so it does not come cheap. For ASR members, I am offering this at a special price of $9999.

All three will objectively improve the fidelity of Schiit Jotunheim. Unlike any other cable you have bought before.

Product will be shipped on first come, first serve basis. It is not available in Hawaii or Alaska or anywhere not allowed by law.

I'm sure the Schiit guys will grab the 9999$ version, maybe it helps their Yggdrasil.

 

[IdiotCustomer]

I had one person report that theirs was grounded so perhaps yours is too.

Answering your original question, the risk of personal injury is exceptionally small. So for your own use I would not worry about it. The question becomes selling it without giving due notice to a buyer. And whether anyone would buy it if you gave them notice. If I were you and the problem is there, I would fix it and tell people that it has been fixed to deal with this issue.

I think the issue is there as I can hear the humming when replicating your testing with nothing in the rca input and touching the volume or the case. But it's probably a good idea to measure as you said. Ooh ok well that's a relief that the chances are very small at least. Then I'll probably keep it as is until I can afford another amp to replace it. Then I'll try to repair this one and notify the potential buyer that it used to have an issue. Again thank you for taking the time to answer all of these questions and being a real good fellow. Most people wouldn't