Review and Measurements of Okto DAC8 8Ch DAC & Amp

[Tachyon88]

The typical setup would be to use software to route output to channel 3 (and implement DSP such as x-over / EQ). I am not a Windows user but I believe some use VB Matrix for routing. For a barebones setup you can do channel routing in the Okto itself via the routing sub menu on the front panel.

Michael

I do plan eventually to get into the weeds with measurements and using other applications, but I just assumed my sub was going to get a signal plug and play after drivers. So I routed out3 source to ch1 and I hear the sub now. Thanks ! I must over overlooked this in the manual some how or not understood it.

 

[Twst]

I'm having a problem where the remote (the tiny apple one) ceases to work after an hour or so, and am hoping the new SW might help with that, or at least narrow down the root cause.
(I also have an Apple TV+, which remote does interact with the Okto, in a not helpful way.)

If I turn it off, and cycle power, it wakes up working again, but then ceases again shortly afterwards.
New(er) batteries and different remotes (apple clones) made no difference.
Rack temps are below 85 degrees, fan cooled.

Still my all time favorite audio device!

I had the same issue and narrowed it down to an issue with the IR codes from my old TV remote freezing the IR input to my DAC8 DSP.
Whenever I used that remote pointing towards the TV(and dac) the DAC8 it would no longer respond to its remote. Getting into the menu via front wheel and back out again fixed it for me until next time I used the TV remote.
Fixed it permanently with a new TV with a non ir remote. Great excuse to get a new TV!

Maybe you have some other IR signal getting to your DAC8?

 

[Neddy]

Good idea; I am using an older samsung TV/remote for the PC, and do also use it for TV volume control (not the PC AV system, but same room & nearby location).
Testing now. I never would have considered that - thanks!
Update: Nope, that doesn't appear to be the cause, but I'm doing more careful testing of that and other remotes now, too.
Great tip, many thanks!

Found it!
@Okto Research
This idea had me chasing all the remotes I've added in the last year or two.

What puzzled me was the 'time out' delay, and its intermittent nature - it would range from minutes to hours before the remote would stop working on the Oktodac, and other days would work ok all day.

The culprit was a newly added new smart thermostat for my Mitsubishi minisplit AC, from Mysa.
When I manually raised the AC temperature, the OktoDAC immediately locked up (no remote response).
So whatever signal that remote is sending to the AC is causing the Okto to not respond at all to IR commands, and requires a hard reset to recover.

The Mysa is basically a very smart IR remote blaster, and so changes the temperature setting automatically ('smart') as the room temperature change, or from programmed activities.
It works far better than the original Mitsubishi remote, but I'll now have to drag that out and see if this problem started when I had that minisplit installed a few years ago - but less frequently bc I kept that remote closer to the minisplit and only used occasionally, while the new one needs power and is located closer to the AV rack, so I never associated that with DAC 'IR outages'.

Wow. This has been driving me nuts for a long time, and got strangely worse recently (when I added the Mysa).
I NEVER would have thought of that - many thanks for the tip!

 

[Zooqu1ko]

[…].

The culprit was a newly added new smart thermostat for my Mitsubishi minisplit AC, from Mysa.
When I manually raised the AC temperature, the OktoDAC immediately locked up (no remote response).
So whatever signal that remote is sending to the AC is causing the Okto to not respond at all to IR commands, and requires a hard reset to recover.
[…]

Do you have a learning remote at hand that you could use to export the IR code (like a Phillips Pronto) for a bug report?

 

[Neddy]

I was thinking about that, but no, I do not have any way of measuring or identifying the 'offending' remote code.

Whatever it is, OktoDAC does NOT like it, as it requires a shutdown followed by an AC reset to return to normal again...but at least Pavel was smart about "IR lockout" syndrome (I did get it into that mode several times) which made it nearly impossible to access the menu settings, even via the control knob! (My suspicion now is that that was caused by a combination of Mitsu and AppleTV remote use, but can't prove it.)

And, from the v1.5 changelog:
"the remote button with the 'Select' function no longer triggers menu entry from the
main screen. This change prevents entering the menu accidentally when changing
volume or switching inputs using an Apple Remote or other remotes with the 'Select'
button located between the 'Up/Down' and 'Left/Right' buttons"

Since the most often used function is Temp UP and Temp DOWN, I'm assuming its whatever code Mitsu uses for that.
(Those are documented, somewhere, but I didn't save them, or where I found them at.)

It doesn't have a lot of commands - just temp, vane direction (vert and horizontal), heat/cool, and fan speed controls.
There are some additional features on the Mitsu supplied remote (which is a horrible UI mess), but I think those are combinations of the basic ones (like 'humidity control only').
The Mysa remote does not offer that, or the horizontal vane controls, so it's neither of those.

As a 'blaster' I have finding it's a bit tricky to find a new location within reasonable reach but does not 'see' the OktoDAC, so I'm still testing new locations for it. Also kind of pain, as I have to power-reset the Okto for each 'oops, that didn't work' location testing.

I suspect the supplied Mitsubishi remote has a more focused or less powerful IR 'beam', and was placed farther from the Okto (closer to the AC).

The AC was installed 2-3 years ago, which - in hindsight - nicely matches when I first noticed the 'dead remote' symptom on the Okto, but only rarely, which led me to think it might be something slowly failing in the DAC, as it got progressively worse after I got the Mysa remote.

And, the other 'perfect storm' aspect of it is that I initially did not consider the AC remote, bc it also would sometimes occur in 'non-AC' season, but totally forgot that I have been using the heat pump heater feature in late fall and early spring!

The important thing is that I now know it's NOT the OktoDAC, and 'only' have to find a better, new location for the Mysa.

The Mysa, by the way, does a superb job of 'leveling' the room temperatures -- with just the 'manual' remote, it would frequently require adjustments, up or down, as it 'chased' solar gain changes during a day.
The AC unit is oversized for the room/space it's in, but slightly undersized for the full house (and solarium).

With the Mysa, room temps remain a LOT more stable (bc it's poking the Up/Down button a lot!), and can also use external (Homekit) temperature sensors to enable/disable, or change the settings, or do so dynamically, but I haven't yet explored those capabilities.

(I use another Mysa tstat/controller for the electric baseboard heater in the solarium, with programming from 'top of solarium' and 'floor level' temperature sensors to adjust the heaters setpoints dynamically. It does a great job of reducing heating costs in there in winter.)

 

[TaxTime]

I was thinking about that, but no, I do not have any way of measuring or identifying the 'offending' remote code.

Whatever it is, OktoDAC does NOT like it, as it requires a shutdown followed by an AC reset to return to normal again...but at least Pavel was smart about "IR lockout" syndrome (I did get it into that mode several times) which made it nearly impossible to access the menu settings, even via the control knob! (My suspicion now is that that was caused by a combination of Mitsu and AppleTV remote use, but can't prove it.)

And, from the v1.5 changelog:
"the remote button with the 'Select' function no longer triggers menu entry from the
main screen. This change prevents entering the menu accidentally when changing
volume or switching inputs using an Apple Remote or other remotes with the 'Select'
button located between the 'Up/Down' and 'Left/Right' buttons"

Since the most often used function is Temp UP and Temp DOWN, I'm assuming its whatever code Mitsu uses for that.
(Those are documented, somewhere, but I didn't save them, or where I found them at.)

It doesn't have a lot of commands - just temp, vane direction (vert and horizontal), heat/cool, and fan speed controls.
There are some additional features on the Mitsu supplied remote (which is a horrible UI mess), but I think those are combinations of the basic ones (like 'humidity control only').
The Mysa remote does not offer that, or the horizontal vane controls, so it's neither of those.

As a 'blaster' I have finding it's a bit tricky to find a new location within reasonable reach but does not 'see' the OktoDAC, so I'm still testing new locations for it. Also kind of pain, as I have to power-reset the Okto for each 'oops, that didn't work' location testing.

I suspect the supplied Mitsubishi remote has a more focused or less powerful IR 'beam', and was placed farther from the Okto (closer to the AC).

The AC was installed 2-3 years ago, which - in hindsight - nicely matches when I first noticed the 'dead remote' symptom on the Okto, but only rarely, which led me to think it might be something slowly failing in the DAC, as it got progressively worse after I got the Mysa remote.

And, the other 'perfect storm' aspect of it is that I initially did not consider the AC remote, bc it also would sometimes occur in 'non-AC' season, but totally forgot that I have been using the heat pump heater feature in late fall and early spring!

The important thing is that I now know it's NOT the OktoDAC, and 'only' have to find a better, new location for the Mysa.

The Mysa, by the way, does a superb job of 'leveling' the room temperatures -- with just the 'manual' remote, it would frequently require adjustments, up or down, as it 'chased' solar gain changes during a day.
The AC unit is oversized for the room/space it's in, but slightly undersized for the full house (and solarium).

With the Mysa, room temps remain a LOT more stable (bc it's poking the Up/Down button a lot!), and can also use external (Homekit) temperature sensors to enable/disable, or change the settings, or do so dynamically, but I haven't yet explored those capabilities.

(I use another Mysa tstat/controller for the electric baseboard heater in the solarium, with programming from 'top of solarium' and 'floor level' temperature sensors to adjust the heaters setpoints dynamically. It does a great job of reducing heating costs in there in winter.)

Off topic, but is there a monthly fee for the MYSA? Is the app independent enough that if MYSA goes under, the system is still usable/programmable? I'm always hesitant about these products because they frequently end up going bankrupt or something and their products become useless bricks after spending $$$ to acquire everything and set things up.

A personal example is that I spent $500 on a bunch of Simplicams (note - NOT the same company as Simplisafe, but quite popular at the time), Less than 1/2 year later, the company disappeared and the cams became useless. In fact, the app itself became dangerous with no security updating, so there was a massive hack of their ecosystem where a lot of customer's video storage was compromised. Luckily for me all they likely got are videos of our dog triggering the cams.

 

[Neddy]

A reasonable concern.

No fees.
Quite good tech support (I had some questions, answered fully in less than a day).
They do have a pretty aggressive sales campaign even post sale, but easy to turn that noise off, too.

I'm not able to tell how much of this software is server side, and thus vulnerable to 'loss of company'... a good question for those more knowlegable with the tech than me...the economic viability of these products is kind of mysterious to me.

There are some server side features, such as monthly energy reports (not available on all products) and outage notifications (outage of the device, that is, it bugged me for days about having turned the baseboard heater off at the breaker!).
Loss of the App would probably also 'kill' the device, I presume, though it does have manual local controls.
Maybe send them an email and ask them directly? ("Don't know? Don't Guess. Call the Factory")

It's low risk to me, as a) I have the original minisplit remote, and b) the purchase cost is modest (around $100) while the benefit in improved comfort in my case, is very noticeable, and a major improvement, or in the case of the solarium heater controller, no other options.
(I hired an electrician to make sure the heater controller was installed per code -that swamped the cost of the actual device!)

I think their mini-split t-stat remote blaster is unique, so I didn't have a lot of choice.

I started with their baseboad heater controller, and was pleased with it, so went for the mini-split one too.
It's a Canadian company, apparently, so, there's that too.

I have been testing a number of other homekit devices (mostly lightbulbs and smart outlets) - several of which are from 'no-name mystery' brands, and so far (about a year) all of them continue to work.
Generally, the 'bigger' the brand, the better the UI, and higher up front cost (Lutron, for example).

One thing I have found is that some ONLY use their app for use/control/setup, while others use both/either their app or Apple Home, and some simply live inside Apple Home.
The latter (I presume some apple fees apply to the developers for Homekit instances) seem to be the most reliable and easier to use (a common UI).

The 'only use our app' variety I will not retain, as those smell too much like 'spy' apps to me.

Mysa Tstat features are available thru either Apple Home or their own app. Their own app contains additional setup/config features rarely needed.

At best I'm a novice at smart home tech - these are all learning experiences, in an 'environment' that is poorly documented, and has wildly varying 'programming' standards/techniques... and I'm definitely not a programmer.

 

[TaxTime]

A reasonable concern.

No fees.
Quite good tech support (I had some questions, answered fully in less than a day).
They do have a pretty aggressive sales campaign even post sale, but easy to turn that noise off, too.

I'm not able to tell how much of this software is server side, and thus vulnerable to 'loss of company'... a good question for those more knowlegable with the tech than me...the economic viability of these products is kind of mysterious to me.

There are some server side features, such as monthly energy reports (not available on all products) and outage notifications (outage of the device, that is, it bugged me for days about having turned the baseboard heater off at the breaker!).
Loss of the App would probably also 'kill' the device, I presume, though it does have manual local controls.
Maybe send them an email and ask them directly? ("Don't know? Don't Guess. Call the Factory")

It's low risk to me, as a) I have the original minisplit remote, and b) the purchase cost is modest (around $100) while the benefit in improved comfort in my case, is very noticeable, and a major improvement, or in the case of the solarium heater controller, no other options.
(I hired an electrician to make sure the heater controller was installed per code -that swamped the cost of the actual device!)

I think their mini-split t-stat remote blaster is unique, so I didn't have a lot of choice.

I started with their baseboad heater controller, and was pleased with it, so went for the mini-split one too.
It's a Canadian company, apparently, so, there's that too.

I have been testing a number of other homekit devices (mostly lightbulbs and smart outlets) - several of which are from 'no-name mystery' brands, and so far (about a year) all of them continue to work.
Generally, the 'bigger' the brand, the better the UI, and higher up front cost (Lutron, for example).

One thing I have found is that some ONLY use their app for use/control/setup, while others use both/either their app or Apple Home, and some simply live inside Apple Home.
The latter (I presume some apple fees apply to the developers for Homekit instances) seem to be the most reliable and easier to use (a common UI).

The 'only use our app' variety I will not retain, as those smell too much like 'spy' apps to me.

Mysa Tstat features are available thru either Apple Home or their own app. Their own app contains additional setup/config features rarely needed.

At best I'm a novice at smart home tech - these are all learning experiences, in an 'environment' that is poorly documented, and has wildly varying 'programming' standards/techniques... and I'm definitely not a programmer.

Thanks for the thorough user info!

 

[davlynam]

No success with macOs...

"Searching OKTO Research product on the USB ports ...
[0] > VID 20B1, PID 2009, BCD 0100 : Okto Research DAC8PRO

found DAC8PRO v1.00
Upgrading USB firmware to intermediate version 1.41, do not disconnect...
Verifying image 58kB
Preparing flash memory (up to 10 seconds...)
Unexpected Error: dfudownload command returned an error -4 at block 0.
USB Host timeout after 5 seconds while device is erasing flash memory needing 8 seconds.
The DAC8 is now awaiting an incomplete USB transaction and requires a gentle power OFF and then power ON.
Your platform configuration does not seem yet to be compatible with this upgrade process.
Please consider installing another version for libusb or testing on other USB ports/hubs

Saving session...
...copying shared history...
...saving history...truncating history files...
...completed."

Does anyone know of a reliable service for updating my okto 8 stereo? I am in the Chicago area

 

[TaxTime]

Does anyone know of a reliable service for updating my okto 8 stereo? I am in the Chicago area

Just call a pal with a Windows laptop (or take your Okto to him/her)? It doesn't take a powerhouse computer to update.

 

[Neddy]

v1.50 & v1.60 uprades from v1.2 was completed successfully on my DAC8.

I used the hardware widget for the v1.5 leap (I have an early version DAC8), using my music PC (a Nuc7) and it went very smoothly.
After that I followed the usual v1.60 upgrade instructions via USB.

Really pretty easy-peasy, but I have years of pcb level experience, so not alien, either.

One of the two upgrades (I think v1.50) also SOLVED the REMOTE blaster issue (above) - it no longer reponds 'incorrectly' to commands for the mitsubishi air conditioner!
(ie, it ignores it)

I am very impressed with the new features & fixes - especially the 'sleep on no USB audio data' feature; I can finally have the system's amps shut down (via trigger controller) when it 'runs out of music' to play.
(Since there are 10 channels, only 4 being class D, this makes a noticeable difference in electric bills.)
This is important bc I tend to run 6-8hr long playlists as background music, and always forget to turn the system off afterwards.

I've only used the system a few times since the upgrade, but have noticed fewer (or quieter) startup and shutdown clicks from my amps, too.
The other features/fixes will take a while to assess.
I do like the USB channel indicators - but haven't explored it much yet (eg: does it reflect changes to the JRiver output mapping from 2.1 to 7.1?)

The support from Pavel and others has been super helpful - many many thanks!

 

[montyliam]

Placed my order for the DAC8. Will be used alongside 3x Genelec 8350's as LCR, 2x 8030c's as surrounds and 2x Emienence NSW6021-6 sealed subwoofers powered by QSC PL380. The system will be run using JRiver to do all the EQ, bass management etc.

 

[dualazmak]

v1.50 & v1.60 uprades from v1.2 was completed successfully on my DAC8.

I used the hardware widget for the v1.5 leap (I have an early version DAC8), using my music PC (a Nuc7) and it went very smoothly.
After that I followed the usual v1.60 upgrade instructions via USB.

Really pretty easy-peasy, but I have years of pcb level experience, so not alien, either.

One of the two upgrades (I think v1.50) also SOLVED the REMOTE blaster issue (above) - it no longer reponds 'incorrectly' to commands for the mitsubishi air conditioner!

Thank you @Neddy for sharing the successful firmware update into ver.1.50 and then ver.1.60.

My DAC8PRO is still Ver.1.32, and the dedicated ASIO driver is still DIYIHNK Ver.4.59.0. These have not been changed since I purchased the DAC8PRO in May 2020 (see #91 on my project thread and subsequent related posts).

In my current/latest use case, with a careful ignition (start-up)/shutdown sequence (ref. #931, I don't like triggered start-up), the DAC8PRO and ASIO driver have been (and now they are still) working perfectly fine (I rarely use the apple remote even it works perfectly fine, and fortunately I don't have any jamming problem with the Mitsubishi air conditioner remote which I too use for our Mitsubishi AirCon machines of 200V operation made for domestic use in Japan.)

Well, although your report strongly encourages me to update my DAC8PRO to ver.1.50 and then to ver.1.60, before that, I am also seriously considering purchasing the "2nd DAC8PRO" with the latest firmware ver.1.60 to replace the original DAC8PRO of ver.1.32; after the new second DAC8PRO Ver. 1.60 will arrive, I will be very much relaxed and update the firmware of the original DAC8PRO to ver.1.50, then into ver.1.60, so that the two of DAC8PRO in ver.1.60 can act as backup machines with each other!

I mean, the DAC8PRO is such an important/critical core part of my multichannel audio system that I can't stand/live even a day without it to enjoy my preferred music. And, I am living in Japan, far from Prague in Czech.

 

[AudioJester]

Thank you @Neddy for sharing the successful firmware update into ver.1.50 and then ver.1.60.

My DAC8PRO is still Ver.1.32, and the dedicated ASIO driver is still DIYIHNK Ver.4.59.0. These have not been changed since I purchased the DAC8PRO in May 2020 (see #91 on my project thread and subsequent related posts).

In my current/latest use case, with a careful ignition (start-up)/shutdown sequence (ref. #931, I don't like triggered start-up), the DAC8PRO and ASIO driver have been (and now they are still) working perfectly fine (I rarely use the apple remote even it works perfectly fine, and fortunately I don't have any jamming problem with the Mitsubishi air conditioner remote which I too use for AC machines made for domestic use in Japan.)

Well, although your report strongly encourages me to update my DAC8PRO to ver.1.50 and then to ver.1.60, before that, I am also seriously considering purchasing the "2nd DAC8PRO" with the latest firmware ver.1.60 to replace the original DAC8PRO of ver.1.32; after the new second DAC8PRO Ver. 1.60 will arrive, I will be very much relaxed and update the firmware of the original DAC8PRO to ver.1.50, then into ver.1.60, so that the two of DAC8PRO in ver.1.60 can act as backup machines with each other!

I mean, the DAC8PRO is such an important/critical core part of my multichannel audio system that I can't stand/live even a day without it to enjoy my preferred music. And, I am living in Japan, far from Prague in Czech.

Expensive way to do it! Just buy a cheaper pro multichannel dac as a backup, if its probably never going to get used. I have not heard of anyone bricking their Okto trying to upgrade the firmware.

 

[dualazmak]

Placed my order for the DAC8. Will be used alongside 3x Genelec 8350's as LCR, 2x 8030c's as surrounds and 2x Emienence NSW6021-6 sealed subwoofers powered by QSC PL380. The system will be run using JRiver to do all the EQ, bass management etc.

Very nice hearing so!

If possible, I am (we are?) very much looking forward to seeing your possible physical setup diagram(s) as well as the total signal-path diagram(s) just like those (e.g. Fig.01 and Fig.03) I shared here #931 on my project thread.

Spoiler

I believe we are not always requesting "beautifully prepared/drawn" diagrams; even hand-written simple block diagram(s) will be very much appreciated and greatly helpful for our understanding of your multichannel audio setup! Yes, one photo or diagram always worths more than thousand words.

 

[dualazmak]

Just buy a cheaper pro multichannel dac as a backup,

Yes, essentially agree with you. TOPPING DM7 too would be another backup candidate (even though I would need eight TRS-XLR adaptors...)

On the other hand, I am also starting to consider possibility of another multichannel multi-amplifier audio system using DAC8Pro in my upstairs office using 3-way stereo SP system in sealed cabinet (eliminating/bypassing LCR passive network) plus L&R subwoofers and L&R super-tweeters...

Furthermore, I am also still waiting/dreaming for my "dream/endgame DAC16PRO(?)" hopefully to be released by OKTO as I wrote in my post #2,145 on this thread; I do hope Pavel of OKTO is still looking at my dream post again here...

Spoiler: my dream on fully in-sync DAC16PRO(?) from OKTO

 

[fabriceo]

v1.50 & v1.60 uprades from v1.2 was completed successfully on my DAC8.

I do like the USB channel indicators - but haven't explored it much yet (eg: does it reflect changes to the JRiver output mapping from 2.1 to 7.1?)

Hi Neddy
good to hear you made it
now with 1.60 every upgrade will be straight forward.

Regarding 8 channels indicator in v1.60 the 8 numbers are always surrounded by a square and they become white on black when a sound presence is detected on any of the 8 channels.
On the DSP version (v161) this has been extended to reflect the streaming configuration chosen by the player (aka number of channels transmitted over USB frame):
When no streaming is started, the 8 digits are simply "underlined".
When a streaming is started and for exemple with 6 channels, then the digits 1 to 6 are surrounded by square, and they become white on black if a sound is detected on some of these 6 channels. This is very useful to detect "issues" or special behavior coming from players or alsa on linux typically. Also in PureAES, a surrounded digit means that the AES/SPDIF has a Z sync-frame visible (locked).
But decision was made to not make this standard in v160 to keep user interface efficient and simple. May be this will be introduced in a later version or as an option in system menu.

 

[Neddy]

Hi, many thanks!
I did NOT know about the 'coding' of the number blocks - how cool is that!? (Did I miss it in the manual ? Quite possible.)
"Back in the day" I worked with coders who did that kind of stuff too, also with very limited (LCD!) matrix displays - sort of deja vu for me....

I generally agree with the K.I.S.S. approach, but sometimes you just have to cram more information in a small display, usually for diagnostic purposes.
The DSP variant is quite tempting, especially with the 'dual' personality safety features.
It's all a bit daunting, but, I may well try it out.

 

[AudioJester]

Anyone coded/programmed the internal multichannel dsp yet?

Looks beyond my capabilities, but will have a good look at the documenation.

 

[fabriceo]

Anyone coded/programmed the internal multichannel dsp yet?

Looks beyond my capabilities, but will have a good look at the documenation.

Hi
in the dedicated section I have put an example which might help some of you to evaluate the complexity.

Okto DAC8 update with DSP

has mac updater been released yet? Hi Guys, the DAC8PRODSP7 freeware firmware upgrade for DAC8PRO is now available in a mature version v1.61 it is based 100% on the v1.60 and brings all the DSP capabilities already discussed and a new feature to spread volume across DSP and DAC giving unique...

www.audiosciencereview.com

hope this helps