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Atmos hometheater without AVR

JRR

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Jun 8, 2022
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With an Okto dac8 pro and six channels of amplification how would one go about setting up a competent and relatively user friendly Atmos system? I use room for multichannel so i`d like to be able to switch on the Okto from roons USB to an AES input with the hometheater soundtrack from a PC. Is this possible or do I really need a Marantz av10?
 
how would one go about setting up a competent and relatively user friendly Atmos system?
The basic answer is: that you don't :confused:

No player software offers out-of-the-box local Atmos decoding. Your best bet currently is to use Cavern. ASR member @VoidX can tell you all about it.
 
Wasn’t familiar with Cavern, so this thread has already been productive… but looks like it only does Lossy Atmos (EAC-3/DD+), and not TrueHD?

I don’t have a better suggestion myself. I’m also itching to ditch an AVR since affordable multichannel processors beat out AVRs handily for far less, but the Dolby/DTS decoding step is a seeming bottleneck in any system. I’m personally hoping this decoding will increasingly move to the source, so audio processors aren’t expected to license the various multichannel codecs. Optimistic 2025 will see some do-everything playback devices come from (Chinese) brands like Homatics based on the teased Amlogic S905X5 chip that should work relatively out of the box with something like a miniDSP.
 
Wasn’t familiar with Cavern, so this thread has already been productive… but looks like it only does Lossy Atmos (EAC-3/DD+), and not TrueHD?

I don’t have a better suggestion myself. I’m also itching to ditch an AVR since affordable multichannel processors beat out AVRs handily for far less, but the Dolby/DTS decoding step is a seeming bottleneck in any system. I’m personally hoping this decoding will increasingly move to the source, so audio processors aren’t expected to license the various multichannel codecs. Optimistic 2025 will see some do-everything playback devices come from (Chinese) brands like Homatics based on the teased Amlogic S905X5 chip that should work relatively out of the box with something like a miniDSP.
Would it decode streaming conent from providers like Netflix and output HDR 10+ and Dolby Vision via HDMI while simultaneously outputting 10-16 channels of LPCM decoded Dolby True HD Atmos via USB?
 
Would it decode streaming conent from providers like Netflix and output HDR 10+ and Dolby Vision via HDMI while simultaneously outputting 10-16 channels of LPCM decoded Dolby True HD Atmos via USB?
Netflix and other streamers won't stream max quality (4K) to PCs, they require more DRM heavy environments (like Smart TVs, Google/Android TV, Apple TV, etc). With that in mind it no longer matters what anything downstream is capable of. Sorry, not the answer you were hoping for.
 
Netflix and other streamers won't stream max quality (4K) to PCs, they require more DRM heavy environments (like Smart TVs, Google/Android TV, Apple TV, etc). With that in mind it no longer matters what anything downstream is capable of. Sorry, not the answer you were hoping for.
FYI, I currently get 4k HDR 10 video on my PC with Netflix and have for years. The PC does not do HRD 10+ or Dolby Vision, but the way I would use the unit you are talking about would stream the video via HDMI to my Oled monitor directly and have the monitor use the bitstream to render a 4K HRD 10+ or Dolby Vision video, which is how it works with my NVidia streamer. So the PC is involved only in the audio piece, which is why I am asking if it will port Atmos decoded LPCM multi channel audio via USB.
 
I see, I misunderstood in my original comment. I can't speak to how an unreleased Homatics device would behave (thats what we're talking about right?) but I am not confident it would output audio over USB whilst doing video over HDMI. It is possible to grab the LPCM audio bitstream using a device like an HDFury Arcana but this is over HDMI.
 
I found one possible shoehorn solution to the decoding of Atmos etc from things like Blu ray or conventional boxes like Apple TV.

I'm exploring this Blustream SW42DA HDMI switcher with Multi-Channel Dante Audio Breakout to decode 8 channel Atmos/eARC etc to Dante for upstream conversion to AES3 for an Okto.

It's untested, a bit inelegant, and still not exactly cheap. More ramblings in this thread. It wouldn't facilitate PC playback directly as you envisioned though. HDCP would no longer be a hurdle with conventional streamer boxes though, in theory. 4K HDR is covered too.
• Supports all known HDMI audio formats including Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos, Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD Master Audio transmission
• HDMI audio breakout of Dolby Atmos and DTS-HD to up to 8 channels of Dante audio (7.1ch), with an independent 2 down-mixed channels of Dante audio
• HDMI audio breakout of Dolby Atmos and DTS-HD to up to 10 channels of Dante audio (7.1.2ch / 5.1.4ch)*
..
• HDCP 2.3 compliant with advanced EDID management
I think the Dante->AES3 conversion could be done via a Sonifex AVN-DIO19 Dante to AES3 16 Converter.
  • 8 x balanced digital stereo AES3 inputs and outputs on 2 x 25-way D-types.
  • Sample rate conversion of physical inputs to Dante system sample rate.
  • Physical output sample rate matches Dante system sample rate.
The Blustream part isn't sold by any of their retailers but only their trade suppliers, as far as I could find.

You'd also forgo any native room correction tech like DIRAC with this idea as well. Although the Okta's AES/USB dual mode could allow PC software to do this — not user-friendly by any means.

Apologies didn't mean to hijack, I ultimately had the same question as OP.
 
I’ve been exploring this as well, I don’t need Atmos just LPCM 7.1.

The WiiM Ultra Q&A states they are looking into adding multichannel out via usb. I would immediately test the WiiM into a Raspberry Pi with CamillaDSP and out to Hifiberry DAX8X (just purchased) or Okto Dac 8 pro.

The other option I’ve been looking at is the Audiopraise Vanity Pro as an hdmi extractor with the new usb output card.

The only thing that I haven’t figured out is whether latency and syncing the audio and video will be a problem.

I’ve ordered a Pi 5 hdmi capture device with I2S hat so I can test the concept. It’s something I am going to try later this year.

I’m also not sure if I am SINAD chasing at this point. I have a decent Marantz AVR from 2018 that has eArc which I am going to compare all this stuff to. I ordered two Bobwire RCA1s and they arrived the other day so I’ll be able to hopefully to do some form of basic A/B testing.

I’m about to add a Pi 5 with CamillaDSP to my WiiM Ultra on my 2.2 setup and I’m going to test the latency. If the video and audio can’t be synced on my Apple TV, I’m going to stick to an AVR……..until WiiM releases an AVR (I’ve read lots of discussions on the WiiM forum).
 
I'm also looking at this. The Blustream seems the most mature product yet that can decode Dolby and Atmos. 8 channels is all I need. I'm thinking of the Blustream connected to a MacMini via Dante, run Mitch Barnett's HL convolver on the Mac, and output via USB to an Okto Pro 8. For two channel, the MacMini can be a Roon endpoint. The Okto has a learning IR volume control, so system integration should be simple and all the DSP processing could be done in the Mac and output at full resolution to the Okto. Also you could "reserve" the 48khz sample rate for video and have a low latency convolution for that sample rate. And set Roon to upsample and run a higher quality, higher latency filter for audio only. For immersive audio an Nvidia Shield works great via HDMI with my Denon, I would assume it would also work with the Blustream. For Video I personally would like to use eARC and let the TV do the switching. Mitch has done a fantastic job for me designing convolution filters for 2 channels. He can do the same for multichannel. I would think this is much better than Dirac. Perhaps I could even use the surrounds, sub and center to smooth out the bass on 2 channel material with a properly designed convolution filter.

Thoughts?
 
I'm also looking at this. The Blustream seems the most mature product yet that can decode Dolby and Atmos. 8 channels is all I need. I'm thinking of the Blustream connected to a MacMini via Dante, run Mitch Barnett's HL convolver on the Mac, and output via USB to an Okto Pro 8. For two channel, the MacMini can be a Roon endpoint. The Okto has a learning IR volume control, so system integration should be simple and all the DSP processing could be done in the Mac and output at full resolution to the Okto. Also you could "reserve" the 48khz sample rate for video and have a low latency convolution for that sample rate. And set Roon to upsample and run a higher quality, higher latency filter for audio only. For immersive audio an Nvidia Shield works great via HDMI with my Denon, I would assume it would also work with the Blustream. For Video I personally would like to use eARC and let the TV do the switching. Mitch has done a fantastic job for me designing convolution filters for 2 channels. He can do the same for multichannel. I would think this is much better than Dirac. Perhaps I could even use the surrounds, sub and center to smooth out the bass on 2 channel material with a properly designed convolution filter.

Thoughts?
I've also been exploring the Blue stream but I discounted it and was going to use use a Windows 11 video player, do all dsp in windows and then output to multichannel DACs.

@PGAMiami, after reading your post, to me it seems you are planning HDMI sources to Blustream SW42DA then Dante to a Mac Mini, Mitch Barnett convolver then usb out to a multichannel dac. Am I correct?

I completely missed this approach. The only problem I can see is delaying the video to allow for the complex audio chain. This can be easily done in a Windows 11 video player or Nvidia Shield but not on HDMI sources like an Apple TV.
 
I've also been exploring the Blue stream but I discounted it and was going to use use a Windows 11 video player, do all dsp in windows and then output to multichannel DACs.

@PGAMiami, after reading your post, to me it seems you are planning HDMI sources to Blustream SW42DA then Dante to a Mac Mini, Mitch Barnett convolver then usb out to a multichannel dac. Am I correct?

I completely missed this approach. The only problem I can see is delaying the video to allow for the complex audio chain. This can be easily done in a Windows 11 video player or Nvidia Shield but not on HDMI sources like an Apple TV.
Thinking about it, it can be done on an Apple TV using Infuse. But I'd then lose the ability to easily play all the movies I've bought through Apple TV+.
 
I don't have much experience dealing with audio processing latency. The latency in the HL convolver will vary depending on the type of filter used, but one can be designed that has relatively low latency. In the past Mitch sent me two sets of filters for the convolver, one low latency for video and a better, higher latency one for audio. With the convolution running on a PC I didn't notice any issues using the Toslink output on the TV input to the PC via a miniDSP Toslink device. I don't know how much latency there's within the Blustream itself as it outputs to Dante into the MacMini. I would hope it's not much. Also, my Samsung display delays the audio out, and this can be reduced to compensate for delays in the audio chain.
 
I cannot say enough good things about how amazing Mitch's convolution filters sound running two channel on Roon with 60,000+ taps. For two channel music this has been a game changer for my system. Most recently I've used three DACs, a Berkeley Reference 2, and Meitner MA3 and an RME. They are all quite good, not much difference between them other than price. But the Audiolense convolution filter Mitch designed makes a huge difference versus what I was able to do with REW and Roon. The match up of an RME with an Audiolense convolution versus a Denon with Dirac is simply no contest, and for music I just cannot enjoy the Nvidia playing on the Denon. But if I could get this Blustream+MacMini+HLConvolver+OktoPro8 to work, then I think this would be a huge advance for multichannel versus what most any sub $15k processor or AVR can achieve.
 
I cannot say enough good things about how amazing Mitch's convolution filters sound running two channel on Roon with 60,000+ taps. For two channel music this has been a game changer for my system. Most recently I've used three DACs, a Berkeley Reference 2, and Meitner MA3 and an RME. They are all quite good, not much difference between them other than price. But the Audiolense convolution filter Mitch designed makes a huge difference versus what I was able to do with REW and Roon. The match up of an RME with an Audiolense convolution versus a Denon with Dirac is simply no contest, and for music I just cannot enjoy the Nvidia playing on the Denon. But if I could get this Blustream+MacMini+HLConvolver+OktoPro8 to work, then I think this would be a huge advance for multichannel versus what most any sub $15k processor or AVR can achieve.
Thanks for the response and sharing your experience with Mitch’s convolution filters. I emailed him earlier today.

I’m trying to do the same thing, I want better performance than an AVR. I personally think Blustream+MacMini+HLConvolver+OktoPro8 is better than any processor or AVR. On Mitch’s website it states the possibility of adding Auro3d with Hang Loose Host and for me that would be better and a lot cheaper than Trinnov.
 
A genuine question, sorry if I am showing my ignorance… how does such a seemingly complex solution provide improved performance (audio fidelity) over the small handful of well measuring (transparent) pre/pros? (Anthem 70/90, Marantz AV10, etc)
 
A genuine question, sorry if I am showing my ignorance… how does such a seemingly complex solution provide improved performance (audio fidelity) over the small handful of well measuring (transparent) pre/pros? (Anthem 70/90, Marantz AV10, etc)
The top pre pros are still not quite as resolving as even modest DACs, although some here may argue that we cannot hear the difference. What we surely can hear is the difference of a sophisticated 50k+ tap convolution filter that can run on a PC, Mac or NUC versus the DSP in most if not all pre pros, perhaps even the $20,000 ones. In my home theater I have an RME DAC that is connected via USB to a Roon endpoint and there is an Audiolense convolution filter running on a NUC with a Harmon like target curve. Via an AB switch I also have a Denon 4800h with Dirac and a similar target curve. As I wrote previously, the Devon is excellent for multichannel TV and it just works, which is great. But the RME/Roon is hands down better for 2 channel music. But if you happen to have a room that sounds great on its own, then you may not benefit much from the DSP.
 
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