Review and Measurements of MARCH audio dac1

[Purité Audio]

I think he needs to say something right away to clear the air. Just say what u want and be done. Not saying anything is not good.

I am sure he will when he wakes up.
Keith

 

[infinitesymphony]

What rustles my jimmies is the 'preview' measurements in the march amp thread, previewing a seemingly new, great product. Misdirection is not the best marketing.

Agreed. The reason this thread is generating two pages per hour is due to choices regarding the product's presentation and marketing, i.e. what is actually on offer here. The attempt to keep the facts hidden is going to read as deceptive marketing to many. That certainly was the case when Swiss company Goldmund put the guts of a $200 Pioneer DVD player into a metal chassis and resold it for $8,900 (link), marketing it as an original work that was the result of their own in-house development when that was not the case.

 

[graz_lag]

At the end of the day, Alan's D/A converting board is going to be a custom-made board based on the Tone Board, which he has modified / upgraded / tuned.
So, what his customers get at the end is a pretty good D/A board with the added flavor of a knowledgeable guy.

Really, I do not see what is wrong with all that ...

 

[infinitesymphony]

At the end of the day, Alan's D/A converting board is going to be a custom-made board based on the Tone Board, which he has modified / upgraded / tuned.
So, what his customers get at the end is a pretty good D/A board with the added flavor of a knowledgeable guy.

Really, I do not see what is wrong with all that ...

I think most people could accept that idea, but don't the measurements seem to show virtually identical performance to the standalone Tone Board?

 

[helloworld]

You guys can check #12 reply from restorer-john and I quote
“The design is his IP, likely hundreds of hours of board layout, tweaking and prototypes.” Please double check who likes it, yes March Audio.
Ooo I forgot to mention #37 reply and March Audio also likes it. Please read #36 and #37 together.

 

[invaderzim]

If there is original electronic design work inside of the DAC beyond changing the connection on the back then I have no problem. I completely backed them when it was initially thought to be a product with similar specs to the Tone board for more money. If it is just a stock board with one less input and with a well designed box then this is probably the wrong place to try to market that and strikingly like my joke in another thread about taking a Topping D30 and putting it in a fancy, heavy case and selling it for hundreds.

 

[graz_lag]

You guys can check #12 reply from restorer-john and I quote
“The design is his IP, likely hundreds of hours of board layout, tweaking and prototypes.” Please double check who likes it, yes March Audio

And so, what ?
There is no SPDIF connection in Alan's board, the jitter is lower, do you think you can simply knock at the Khadas' plant door with your brass pipe cutter on a Saturday-morning and cut the SPDIF connections out of the half dozen boards you have just ordered to them ?

If you have ever dealt with some business so far in your career you know what I am talking about ...

Again, chapeau to him, you're from China, right ? Despite that, you've not been able to bring out to this show the gem he has instead ...

 

[graz_lag]

... If it is just a stock board with one less input and with a well designed box then this is probably the wrong place to try to market that and strikingly like my joke in another thread about taking a Topping D30 and putting it in a fancy, heavy case and selling it for hundreds ...

Fair enough ... However, you need some sort of credibility to do that ..
Topping or Khadas in this particular case, does not give the know how to the 1st who approaches them ... despite the 12 hrs. flying on a China Southwest Airlines' flight you can claim, it is not that easy, not at all ...

Alan's asking price for his DAC1 (I say asking not selling ...) takes into account that as well ... His credibility is not worth nothing ...

 

[helloworld]

What’s really interest to me is the spdif performance of tone board matchs very well to this DAC1(thd,jitter,dnr). Maybe a separate psu and metal case do increase the usb performance of tone board.

 

[invaderzim]

And so, what ?
There is no SPDIF connection in Alan's board, the jitter is lower, do you think you can simply knock at the Khadas' plant door with your brass pipe cutter on a Saturday-morning and cut the SPDIF connections out of the half dozen boards you have just ordered to them ?

If you have ever dealt with some business so far in your career you know what I am talking about ...

Again, chapeau to him, you're from China, right ? Despite that, you've not been able to bring out to this show the gem he has instead ...

Then the board was altered to make an improvement rather than just ordering them without one connection or desoldering it once it arrived. To me that is a good direction towards improvement. If it is worth the price then is only something that each person can decide just like any other product.

 

[Zoide]

I find it poor form to have played coy when people asked him directly if the board inside was a Khadas Tone Board, and to have supported the narrative that he couldn't share any info for fear that "the Chinese" would copy it. The irony of Khadas being Chinese is... Considerable.

 

[Jorj]

I had assiduously avoided this thread since I need another DAC like I need kicked in the shins.

Now that I'm here and caught up....well. Let's just say I AM disappointed. I could yammer on about Amir dropping tasty hints of a pre-production version, and speculate whether he opened it up and knew the truth. I could whinge about a lack of transparency on Alan's part. I could be dismayed by Thomas' reaction to some folks who asked probing questions in an unkind manner. Those would be valid complaints.

What really has me wound up about this is that this forum is dedicated to the science of audio reproduction, and science is really about getting to the truth of how things work. I can't help but feel slighted in some way, even though I did not buy a DAC1 and never considered it. We were led to believe that Alan had slaved over a nearly reference-grade design of his own devising and stuffed it into a pleasing aluminum box. That is not the case, and I do feel like I was deceived, even if no harm came of it. No one likes being misled. I'm sorry if this offends folks, but if Alan had simply said, "I found a nice little DAC that WesionTech makes and am modifying it to work in a nice enclosure", I'd have no heartburn. Not saying it really bugs me, but that is just how I'm wired. CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. It is an important guiding principle, scientists are obligated to mention and reference the works they build theirs on top of. Shoulders of giants and all.....

Finally, I'm no fan of Schiit, but if this had been a Tone board in one of their grey aluminum enclosures, the howling heard on this forum would immediately and obviously audible to Michael Fremer in his basement vinyl vault.

edit: of course the coincidence could be real, but I doubt it.

 

[amirm]

I could yammer on about Amir dropping tasty hints of a pre-production version, and speculate whether he opened it up and knew the truth.

I have not opened this unit. I always post a review, then get explicit permission for a teardown if it is necessary. I have not done that.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Will you ask for permission to perform a teardown? If not, why?

 

[amirm]

Will you ask for permission to perform a teardown? If not, why?

You guys need to create the demand for a teardown first. Currently I am under extreme pressure to review other products. It is the worse it has been by far since I started this effort. I have tons of speaker amplifiers for example people are dying to see reviewed. More phone dongles. More products I have bought that are brand new but not reviewed yet, etc., etc. I am also leaving town for a wedding today and coming back in a few days.

While I am gone, you guys can work to create demand above the work already scheduled and I am happy to go along with it.

 

[restorer-john]

You guys can check #12 reply from restorer-john and I quote
“The design is his IP, likely hundreds of hours of board layout, tweaking and prototypes.” Please double check who likes it, yes March Audio.

I was unaware at that point there was possibly a board component part in the unit sourced externally. Regardless, there is a lot more to any product that screwing a PCB in a case and calling it good. It is a manufactured product, with a warranty and backup from the gentleman himself.

Gone are the days of everything from the chassis, the PCB all the way to the power transformer being made in house. That was the early 1970s.

I'm disappointed with direction the thread has taken with what I regard as below the belt shots at a man having an honest go. Alan has prioritized performance, fit and finish and clearly has a plan for a bespoke, matching high performance bunch of components, that people can afford and be proud of sitting in their lounge rooms.

Buy it, or not, but you can't criticize the measured technical performance.

 

[Hugo9000]

Well, I'm probably in the minority in this community as I don't have the ability to take something like a Tone board or a Hypex module and be confident I'll make a workable product out of it (for my own personal use, never mind the complexities of doing it as a business). Between lack of skills, expertise, knowing what matters and what doesn't, laziness, not knowing where to look for the case I'd want to use, power supplies, worrying about shipping from five different companies in different countries for the parts I need to use, wondering how much time I might be wasting if one or more items arrives DOA, whatever...

The point is, in the world of audio, I'm surely not alone in avoiding buying a Tone board or a Hypex module or figuring out what I need for one of those raspberry Pi things for that matter lol. Even if all someone does is choose the right board and power supply and case, provide a single customer service point of contact, warranty service, etc., in my native language and operating out of a country where it's easy for me to find out whatever laws may apply, that all constitutes a valuable service to some of us. For many people, peace of mind is worth a lot more than a few hundred dollars.

 

[Jorj]

Gone are the days of everything from the chassis, the PCB all the way to the power transformer being made in house. That was the early 1970s.

I'm disappointed with direction the thread has taken with what I regard as below the belt shots at a man having an honest go. Alan has prioritized performance, fit and finish and clearly has a plan for a bespoke, matching high performance bunch of components, that people can afford and be proud of sitting in their lounge rooms.

Kudos to you for sticking up for a fellow countryman. If I were to sell an amp with Hypex modules in it, I'd say that clearly, and show which ones I used and give them credit. If I create a DAC, I'd say it uses ESS this or AKM that. If someone was selling a FINISHED product and I was just jamming it in my box, after popping off one of the input connections, I would give them credit. The Khadas team worked hard on that device, their IP is in there, and not giving them their due is dirty pool.

 

[gvl]

 

[Headphonaholic]

People have gotten rather aggressive regarding this issue which muddies what they are actually upset about. The core issue people seem to up in arms over is someone passing an others work off as their own. A perfectly reasonable thing to be concerned about. I would suggest that perhaps we wait and see what Alan has to say regarding this instead of losing our minds over it.

As restorer-john has said it's common for components to be outsourced. I do think however the idea of adding a case to something like the tone board isn't necessarily enough contribution to call it your own. All the same it is solving what I thought was an issue with the Khados Tone board, the lack of fit and finish.