Reliable amps

[AltoVariago]

It seems very clear that some wonderfully sounding amps (I had the chance to try some of them) have a big reliability issue. I do not want to start an argument, but it is very clear that some amps of some brands have a failure rate that is very far from average.

Let’s ignore them and discuss about the good ones: what are the amps that we usually consider that have a very good record track for reliability?

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't know and I doubt you can get reliable statistics...

but it is very clear that some amps of some brands have a failure rate that is very far from average.

I would expect half to be above average and half below average.

Most solid state electronics are very reliable and failures are mostly random... That is, it's just about as likely to fail in the 1st month or the 500th month. Of course, as the months go-by the chances of a failure add-up. In reality you often get early failures do-to manufacturing defects or errors, and over a long period of time some capacitors deteriorate, things can corrode, and moving parts (switches, & pots, etc.) can wear out.

Heat is a stress factor so if you run an amp at full power in a hot environment you might kill it or shorten its life. Class-A amps run hot so that can be a factor if they aren't ruggedly designed. Class-D amps run cool, but they are way more complex so I don't really know how that trade-off balances-out. (That doesn't add much to a modern digital AVR which is already complex.)

Anecdotal reports can be misleading... The more amps a particular manufacturer sells, the more likely you are to run-across a complaint.

 

[Steven Holt]

Yamaha. They aren't cool, they aren't flashy, they're just really good. Right now, I'm using a RX397, amp is 10 years old, sounds great. It is reliable as the day is long.

 

[antcollinet]

Yamaha. They aren't cool, they aren't flashy, they're just really good. Right now, I'm using a RX397, amp is 10 years old, sounds great. It is reliable as the day is long.

Yamaha was my first thought.

Good solid workhorses.


Though I'm currently listening to a 15 year old Sony AVR. It owes me very little.

 

[radix]

I would expect half to be above average and half below average.

Actually, an average is not in the middle. The average of hourly employees and warren buffet is not in the middle! That's the median.

You could also look at what vintage amps are still being sold and used, e.g. McIntosh or Luxman or Accuphase or Marantz or Yamaha. But, I don't have any real numbers to back that up. It's based mostly on what I see as firm resale value. Of course some parts (capacitors, sometimes transistors) age, but they are pretty easy to service. I recently got a McIntosh stack (tuner, preamp, amp) from the 70s and 80s that with minor refresh still work great. of course, that gear won't have the 3- or 4- zeros of THD of the latest SOTA.

 

[GXAlan]

McIntosh has to be one of the most reliable amplifiers you can buy. It has power guard so it starts to attenuate the input once you hit 1% THD and the fact they use autoformers also prevents DC from reaching your speakers.

Their amplifiers can go into thermal overload, but under normal conditions you are just using the huge amounts of power for headroom not actual constant SPLs.

Accuphase also falls into this category. They don’t have any trickery but they do use the highest quality components *and* keep spare parts in inventory for extended periods of time. You do pre-pay for that customer support and it’s only valid for authorized dealer purchases.

Halcro and Benchmark are engineering focused amplifiers which also seem to stand the test of time.

I have been very happy with my Yamaha as well although there are rare reports of failures. My MX-A5000 has fans for backup but I have never seen them turn on. @thin bLue killed a Yamaha AX-A8A with his testing though.

90s and 00s era made in Japan Sony ES is very reliable. The TA-N9000ES actually outperforms HypeX NC252MP at 5W 1 kHz SINAD 30 years later

My 90s and current generation made in Japan Marantz have been reliable.

Bryston has the longest transferable warranty in the industry.

 

[oceansize]

Actually, an average is not in the middle. The average of hourly employees and warren buffet is not in the middle! That's the median.

Mean (sum of values divided by the number of the values) is the most common way of taking an average. Median (middle value) is another, as is mode (the most commonly occurring value).

 

[dlaloum]

Quad amps...

Some of the ones I have are 30+ years old...

 

[DMill]

its Impossible to predict the reliability of current offerings. We could find class D lasts forever if properly built. I think the Yamaha AS series amps are going to be classics one day and look like a pretty good value if I were betting man. Mc and Luxman are certainly the Rolex of amps if you have the money.

 

[wwenze]

Even if something has a 10% failure in the first 3 years, that's still 90% chance you get something that lives.

 

[Doodski]

It's not only what has a longer life but it is also about the build being serviceable. Are controls accessible for a clean and lub? Is the layout conducive to re-soldering the unit later in it's life? Is the unit built on a stable chassis so it does not flex and twist? Stuff like this makes it easier and better for servicing at a later date.

 

[restorer-john]

If you want an amplifier built to last long enough to give to you grandchildren, you'll have to build it yourself. Make it over engineered, through hole, no micros, no code, no firmware, no remote control, physical switches not soft control, analogue protection systems, cool running (no fans) using the best ubiquitous and widely available components you can buy. And then keep whatever spares you want in a box just in case.

The first big (300wpc) power amp I built is still running (left on) 24/7 in a church for their PA, 37 years later. The only thing that has died is the neon in the power switch. I built it when I was 20 years old! Had the heatsinks cut at a boat manufacturing factory as that was the biggest precision radial arm saw I could locate. I remember ringing them and asking what maximum depth they could precisely cut finned aluminium. The guy said "son, we build boats, what are you making?". I told him it was a power amplifier and he laughed. He didn't laugh when I took the extrusions in. He had to make two passes and make a small jig to hold the heatsink upside down to give the flawless cuts I wanted. I made him test cut on the first set that were buggered up by an 'engineering' company...

 

[Astrofly]

If you want an amplifier built to last long enough to give to you grandchildren, you'll have to build it yourself. Make it over engineered, through hole, no micros, no code, no firmware, no remote control, physical switches not soft control, analogue protection systems, cool running (no fans) using the best ubiquitous and widely available components you can buy. And then keep whatever spares you want in a box just in case.

The first big (300wpc) power amp I built is still running (left on) 24/7 in a church for their PA, 37 years later. The only thing that has died is the neon in the power switch. I built it when I was 20 years old! Had the heatsinks cut at a boat manufacturing factory as that was the biggest precision radial arm saw I could locate. I remember ringing them and asking what maximum depth they could precisely cut finned aluminium. The guy said "son, we build boats, what are you making". I told him it was a power amplifier and he laughed. He didn't laugh when I took the extrusions in. He had to make two passes and make a small jig to hold the heatsink upside down to give the flawless cuts I wanted.

Well I'd likely just electrocute myself trying to build my own amp and end up looking like a non-humorous version of your avatar. However, if you ever set up shop for such amps, let me know.

 

[DMill]

Well I'd likely just electrocute myself trying to build my own amp and end up looking like a non-humorous version of your avatar. However, if you ever set up shop for such amps, let me know.

Yes but fix the goddamn power supply light.

 

[MRC01]

My Adcom 5800 is 29 years old, with daily use still performs like new, both objectively (measurements) and subjectively.
450 wpc continuous into 4 ohms, both channels driven, and I need all of it with inefficient Magnepan 3.6/R speakers.
It's earned a spot up there with industry legends like Bryston and Benchmark.

I believe one reason it's lasted so long is that it has temperature controlled fans to maintain cooling. They are very quiet.

 

[GXAlan]

If you want an amplifier built to last long enough to give to you grandchildren, you'll have to build it yourself. Make it over engineered, through hole, no micros, no code, no firmware, no remote control, physical switches not soft control, analogue protection systems, cool running (no fans) using the best ubiquitous and widely available components you can buy. And then keep whatever spares you want in a box just in case.

The first big (300wpc) power amp I built is still running (left on) 24/7 in a church for their PA, 37 years later. The only thing that has died is the neon in the power switch.

I’d love to see some measurements on that amp .

In the world of today’s hifi that exists outside of this forum, people pay a premium for exclusivity.

What would it cost to build a 50W or 100W amp built to that type of over engineering? You can include a hard copy service manual and a bunch of spare parts.

The church PA amp story is a story that would be great for marketing too.

 

[dualazmak]

I have been intensively using YAMAHA and ACCUPHASE (ref. here for the latest setup).
The design and durability of YAMAHA amps have been already pointed by many people above.

Here, let me briefly write about ACCUPHASE amps.
Accuphase gears are rather expensive, but it includes their service and maintenance policy/practice.
I wrote here;
Accuphase provides repair and maintenance services for any of their past and present products sold in the past 50 years. Just one phone call to Accuphase, and they collect the amps (by the specially contracted transfer company having huge Accuphase boxes) at your home and they send it back to you afterwards; usually within one week quick and perfect service (in Japan) in reasonable cost after the warranty period. Of course the service is completely free within the warranty period.

I did it three times on my E-460; Accuphase's own decision to replace one capacitor (after the warranty period but of course free; a kind of gentle/generous preventive recall?), one repair for my mistake (short-circuit at SP terminals while operation) and one full overhaul maintenance.

They have several large storage rooms keeping huge amount of amp parts, including rather old capacitors, resistors, inductors and so on, used in their old products. In case if they cannot find the same parts, sometimes they even handmade it (by themselves or by contract-out) for perfect repair and maintenance, still in reasonable cost for us.

Their comparably high price list includes the cost covering such repair/maintenance policy, operation, human resources and services, I believe.

These policy and practice are of course the same for overseas users through the appointed dealers.

Also I wrote here;
Accuphase is intentionally restricting their export sales less than 30 % of their total business revenue in order to keep existing as an pure Japanese independent sustainable company;
http://www.accuphase.com/company_profile/a2_management_policies_2.pdf

 

[restorer-john]

The church PA amp story is a story that would be great for marketing too.

Not that I am remotely religious, but I figure it's been spreading the word of god all those years...

 

[dualazmak]

If you want an amplifier built to last long enough to give to you grandchildren, you'll have to build it yourself.

I really do wish (and regret to be too late) if I were as you are.

 

[restorer-john]

What would it cost to build a 50W or 100W amp built to that type of over engineering? You can include a hard copy service manual and a bunch of spare parts.

Think of all the products sold in the 1970s that came with a full schematic on a separate sheet of paper, a tool to adjust the knobs, a cloth to wipe the panel and several spare fuses in a little bag. Full service manuals were available to anyone who wanted to buy one. They weren't cheap, usually around $30-$50, but they printed, high quality, multipage technical documents sent from Japan on request.

Parts came in beautiful little Japanese boxes- anything you needed. I'll bet @Doodski can tell you what colour the Sony ones were... And what the Pioneer ones looked like. Parts deliveries were like christmas- lots of cute boxes with stuff you'd been waiting for carefully wrapped inside each one.

Companies were proud to be of service in the true sense. They wanted the reputation that their products were known for reliability.

I miss that, but I keep my corner of the HiFi world alive and try to help others where I can.