carnagymelton
Member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2020
- Messages
- 93
- Likes
- 63
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Recommendation for MOST DETAILED, ANALYTICAL, X-RAY - 3D HOLOGRAPHIC DAC available?
- Thread starter insoc
- Start date
Ha! Somewhat related... I haven't tested it *blindly* but I swear my beer tastes better when I drink it from a glass than straight from the can in which I bought it.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 20,795
- Likes
- 37,705
Please show these results or tells us where to find them. I've not seen or read of this so far.
Interesting. Any report about your blind test?
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 20,795
- Likes
- 37,705
How did you find this out?
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 20,795
- Likes
- 37,705
So if true, you could absolutely do this in blind level matched comparisons. Have you done so?
Most probably: The Mojo was set in DAC mode (3V), the E30 was 2V... There you go.
Perhaps what you need to do to get a more analytical or transparent sound is to play with a DSP:
http://noaudiophile.com/DSP_Corrections/
“Some people prefer color in their sound. I've got a menu for that, to add color back into the corrections for that transparency, speed, attack, clarity, etc. that audio reviewers go on about. These are the secrets that I've unlocked so far. I have not found them to universally work for all speakers. Use at your own risk, goofy sounds can be addictive. Also remember to use the preamp level to cut it make sure there is no gain added to the digital signal, digital distortion is real and it's ugly. [see the link for details].”
http://noaudiophile.com/DSP_Corrections/
“Some people prefer color in their sound. I've got a menu for that, to add color back into the corrections for that transparency, speed, attack, clarity, etc. that audio reviewers go on about. These are the secrets that I've unlocked so far. I have not found them to universally work for all speakers. Use at your own risk, goofy sounds can be addictive. Also remember to use the preamp level to cut it make sure there is no gain added to the digital signal, digital distortion is real and it's ugly. [see the link for details].”
- Thread Starter
- #49
Because life is full of mysteries...
- Thread Starter
- #50
It's quite easy to hear the differences between a tube amplifier and a ss amplifier. "The basic cause of the difference in tube and transistor sound is the weighting of harmonic distortion in the amplifier's overload region. Transistor amplifiers exhibit a strong component of 3rd harmonic distortion when driven into overload. "
But forget about theory. If you can't hear the differences you really must have something wrong with your ears...
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 20,795
- Likes
- 37,705
I'm very careful not to overload my amps. Nor did I say I couldn't hear differences. So are you saying if you don't overload them, they sound the same to you?
Not necessarily true at all! (Quite apart from the fact that there are plenty of amplifier designers out there who design solid state amplifiers to be 2nd harmonic dominant - it is not even difficult!) There is excellent evidence, pointed to earlier in this thread and elsewhere, that when blinded properly and level-matched, then there is no difference in the sound between competent valve and solid-state designs. Also when there is a sonic difference, it can be accounted for by frequency response differences due the the change in output impedance of the amplifiers interacting with the load impedance.
If you have not done a double-blind and level-matched test, then you do not know anything except about your biases...
Cahudson42
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2019
- Messages
- 1,083
- Likes
- 1,557
To make this perhaps a bit more precise, is it correct to add, 'any transparent delta-sigma DAC is transparent' provided they both use the exact same Reconstruction Filter?
Stated another way: 'Choice of Reconstruction Filter is a choice of potentially different coloration'
Last edited:
- Thread Starter
- #54
Thank you for this example. I can ABSOLUTELY tell the difference between my Diet Coke when it comes in a glass bottle vs a plastic bottle. And the same goes when drinking from a paper cup, a plastic cup and a glass cup, being that the GLASS CUP or the GLASS BOTTLE brings the more NEUTRAL taste.
If all DACs were to sound the same what would be the reason for forums like this to exist? And the great comparison charts of recommended and NOT recommended DACs wouldn't have any purpose. Just buy a $50 DAC and that's all. OF COURSE all ZEROS and ONES sound the same and I'm against all kind of colorations and modifications made to the original sound. That's what I meant by DETAILED, TRANSPARENT, NEUTRAL or ANALYTICAL: to have the BEST RENDITION of the ZEROS and ONES as possible.
Why, if ZEROS and ONES sound the same, there are DACs that sound different? Because colorations aside, there must be SOMETHING WRONG in the design of those DACs that does not allow the DACs to create a faithful rendition of said ZEROS and ONES. Is not that the maker of the DAC is intending to introduce his own particular sound signature BUT that said maker BELIEVES he is doing a good job faithfully reproducing the 0 and 1 but have failed.
So, I want a PERFECT DAC that can PERFECTLY reproduce the ZEROS and ONES as they were recorded and by perfect I mean without any kind of elements or artifacts that don't belong to the original ZEROS and ONES.
So don't come here telling me that ALL DACs SOUND THE SAME because that would imply that all DACs are perfectly made, without any flaw that could alter the sound and so the great effort of the DAC COMPARISON CHART the owner of this forum have made wouldn't have any reason to exist.
As I know NOT ALL DACs are the same, I'm asking for the DACs most close to perfection that you can recommend. It would be much easier for me to buy a p.o.s. $14.99 DAC...
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 20,795
- Likes
- 37,705
It is possible to have DACs of extraordinary fidelity to the digital signal it is fed. No DAC will ever be truly perfect due to thermal noise in the analog world.
The other thing is an assumption you are making. That assumption being that the closest to perfect DAC will have the most 3D, holographic, detailed sound. The truth is few if any recordings have that encoded in them. And also that some artifacts can give one that perception when the original signal didn't include it.
Among the DACs that have top quality measurements, you'll not hear a difference between them or certainly not much of one. Not if they are level matched and you don't know which one you are listening to at the time.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2016
- Messages
- 20,795
- Likes
- 37,705
I don't think they have to use the same exact reconstruction filter. If they don't use a good enough one it will not be transparent.
In one of the two 8th generation copy threads I've posted, the ADC had a filter with some ripple above 8 or 10 khz. After 8 generations it is possible to hear this. But with only 1 or 2 or even 4 generations it is not. That is because the size of the ripple is enough to hear in the frequency response. Even then it isn't very easy to hear.
In the other thread I used a DAC with just the tiniest uptilt in response at the top. And an ADC with just the tiniest droop. So much so they canceled out for flat response even after 8 generations. I could not hear those at all even though some of the other specs were a bit less good.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2018
- Messages
- 6,652
- Likes
- 9,408
If all you're looking for is closeness to (objective) perfection, I suggest you simply look at this table and choose the DAC with the highest SINAD that you can afford.
- Thread Starter
- #59
Thank you. What else should one find apart from “the closeness to objective perfection”? Wouldn’t a DAC that can’t achieve said objective perfection be a flawed DAC or a DAC with intentional colorations?
Carbonated drinks in plastic bottles have dissolved CO2 at a lower pressure than in glass bottles, size for size. This noticeably alters the taste sensation. I always got bigger burps from the in-glass Coke.
Last edited: