Recommendation for MOST DETAILED, ANALYTICAL, X-RAY - 3D HOLOGRAPHIC DAC available?

[insoc]

It's getting almost discouraging. I believe we are now down to our host as the only moderator as well.

Wish that kiddie pool idea had gotten off the ground...getting harder to wade through it.

I'm not a troll. Why would I be? I love reading the reviews here. You will get a heart attack if you knew how many audiophiles believe that DACs sound different, myself included. Maybe someone could suit a class action lawsuit for companies selling DACs at 3,000-25,000 dollars claiming their DACs sound better than the competition!

 

[carnagymelton]

I like TOPPING DACs and I don't really care about warranties because I don't live in the US so I would not get a warranty for the QUTEST either. I like the sound of my Topping E30 but no better than the sound of my Chord Mojo... Maybe comparing how good is the D90 versus the E30 would give me a light...

Well, someone here had a great post here prior in another thread. Basically he said that there are 2 camps. "Transparency" and "transparency is not the entire story". He said both camps were viable and respectable, but the problem were the companies which tried to surf both waves. When you say "X-ray", it almost sounds a little like you are doing that.

 

[carnagymelton]

Well, someone here had a great post here prior in another thread. Basically he said that there are 2 camps. "Transparency" and "transparency is not the entire story". He said both camps were viable and respectable, but the problem were the companies which tried to surf both waves. When you say "X-ray", it almost sounds a little like you are doing that.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-sound-is-a-myth-why-tubes.8656/#post-216680

 

[Vini darko]

If you wanna get divorced and sell your kids MBL electronics will be happy to help you out

 

[BDWoody]

I'm not a troll. Why would I be? I love reading the reviews here. You will get a heart attack if you knew how many audiophiles believe that DACs sound different, myself included. Maybe someone could suit a class action lawsuit for companies selling DACs at 3,000-25,000 dollars claiming their DACs sound better than the competition!

Or maybe more people would actually do the controlled tests suggested by pretty much anyone interested in reality.

Level match very closely, get a helper to do the switching so you nor your helper knows what's playing, and pick which is which 18/20 times. Your music. Your listening room.

If you can do that with any of these very competent DAC's, you may be the very first ever in history.

So far, that hasn't happened. What happens is people claim the differences are real, we tend to ask if they actually did a controlled test or if it was uncontrolled, the answer is either uncontrolled completely, or 'level matched by ear' or some other nonsense that makes it all meaningless.

Until someone can actually demonstrate that they can hear a *difference,* let alone a preference, all this talk of warm, cold, clinical, whatever the audiophool buzzword bingo comes up with is just that much "me too.". Nothing more.

 

[carnagymelton]

Or maybe more people would actually do the controlled tests suggested by pretty much anyone interested in reality.

Level match very closely, get a helper to do the switching so you nor your helper knows what's playing, and pick which is which 18/20 times. Your music. Your listening room.

If you can do that with any of these very competent DAC's, you may be the very first ever in history.

So far, that hasn't happened. What happens is people claim the differences are real, we tend to ask if they actually did a controlled test or if it was uncontrolled, the answer is either uncontrolled completely, or 'level matched by ear' or some other nonsense that makes it all meaningless.

Until someone can actually demonstrate that they can hear a *difference,* let alone a preference, all this talk of warm, cold, clinical, whatever the audiophool buzzword bingo comes up with us that much "me too.". Nothing more.

All very true, but the sword cuts both ways. Those who want to claim that there IS no difference between "competent" DACs should also have to come up with ABX tests, not graphs, to "demonstrate that they can['t] hear a * difference *". If "buzzwords" can't suffice, then graphs shouldn't either.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Hello. I love detailed and analytical "sounding" DACs. The kind of DAC that let you examine your music like if it was an X-RAY machine. The one that does not left any subtlety or sound behind or left and that reproduce it the way it sounds in real life, that's it, in the most possible precise and exact way. I'm heading towards the CHORD QUTEST but would like to know if there is one better. My AMPS are a NAD M22 V2 and a PRIMALUNA DIALOGUE PREMIUM HP with ATC SCM7 speakers and REVEL M106 speakers. Thank you very much!!

Any good chi-fi $100 DAC will meet your criterea. For the sake of your own clarity of mind, suggest you stop reading TAS, Stereophile, Positive Feedback, Darko, SBAF (oh christ, SBAF) et al for a while, and read the ASR reviews of the top 20 DACS over having a SINAD in excess of 115 db, and then find the cheapest one that has the features and form factor you like, and buy that one. If you don't like it, sell it and just follow Darko and Guttenberg's advice and buy the most expensive Dennafrips you can afford.

 

[BDWoody]

All very true, but the sword cuts both ways. Those who want to claim that there IS no difference between "competent" DACs should also have to come up with ABX tests, not graphs, to "demonstrate that they can['t] hear a * difference *". If "buzzwords" can't suffice, then graphs shouldn't either.

Many of us have done a version of that. A/B for me, but with no discernable difference at that point, I wasn't motivated to add the /X.

Once you've done it, you don't need to keep proving it to yourself.

My fork doesn't change the taste of my steak. I don't need to blind test forks to be comfortable with that conclusion, no matter how much you think yours will make it taste better, nor how many others you've convinced it's true.

 

[insoc]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-sound-is-a-myth-why-tubes.8656/#post-216680

Exactly. I can CLEARLY, ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY hear the differences between tube amps and solid state/digital amps, and that's why although I have several amps, my favorite is my PRIMALUNA DIALOGUE PREMIUM HP tube amplifier!

 

[carnagymelton]

Many of us have done a version of that. A/B for me, but with no discernable difference at that point, I wasn't motivated to add the /X.

Once you've done it, you don't need to keep proving it to yourself.

My fork doesn't change the taste of my steak. I don't need to blind test forks to be comfortable with that conclusion, no matter how much you think yours will make it taste better, nor how many others you've convinced it's true.

Below @-100dbfs noise/distortion, more than prove I can't hear a difference by proving you can't hear a difference doesn't make sense.

These are the kind of responses that are meaningful, at least to me. I have a Topping E30, but wanted to buy an expensive DAC and still wonder whether I'm missing something. Can I ask what 2 DACs you AB'd? Were they dissimilar in transparency or price?

 

[BDWoody]

Exactly. I can CLEARLY, ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY hear the differences between tube amps and solid state/digital amps, and that's why although I have several amps, my favorite is my PRIMALUNA DIALOGUE PREMIUM HP tube amplifier!

Try this one

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...f-tube-sound-is-a-myth-why-tubes.8656/page-24

 

[Wombat]

Exactly. I can CLEARLY, ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY hear the differences between tube amps and solid state/digital amps, and that's why although I have several amps, my favorite is my PRIMALUNA DIALOGUE PREMIUM HP tube amplifier!

How does that relate to accurate DACs?

 

[BDWoody]

These are the kind of responses that are meaningful, at least to me. I have a Topping E30, but wanted to buy an expensive DAC and still wonder whether I'm missing something. Can I ask what 2 DACs you AB'd? Were they dissimilar in transparency or price?

I had gotten an Auralic Vega, thinking it would be a clear improvement over the built in DAC in my Krell pre/pro. Worked out a way to connect, matched levels, mixed up cables and had my son switch.

No difference.

Got out some other older receivers that had analog outs... No difference.

Got another DAC... One of the well thought of ProJect boxes... No difference.

Sent back the Auralic and bought myself a pair of JBL705P's.

That's made a bigger difference in my musical enjoyment than any DAC could have.

 

[carnagymelton]

I had gotten an Auralic Vega, thinking it would be a clear improvement over the built in DAC in my Krell pre/pro. Worked out a way to connect, matched levels, mixed up cables and had my son switch.

No difference.

Got out some other older receivers that had analog outs... No difference.

Got another DAC... One of the well thought of ProJect boxes... No difference.

Sent back the Auralic and bought myself a pair of JBL705P's.

That's made a bigger difference in my musical enjoyment than any DAC could have.

I had similar experiences and could not find a better DAC than the one in the apple's mac mini, though I never did try a DAC more expensive than $1,000. Your tests are valuable and go a long way, imo.

 

[BDWoody]

I had similar experiences and could not find a better DAC than the one in the apple's mac mini, though I never did try a DAC more expensive than $1,000. Your tests are valuable and go a long way, imo.

They were valuable to me.
It is like an innoculation against the undertone of bullshit in this industry...

Just a little personal reality check.

 

[ahofer]

All very true, but the sword cuts both ways. Those who want to claim that there IS no difference between "competent" DACs should also have to come up with ABX tests, not graphs, to "demonstrate that they can['t] hear a * difference *". If "buzzwords" can't suffice, then graphs shouldn't either.

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/catalogue-of-blind-tests.8675/

 

[ahofer]

Exactly. I can CLEARLY, ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY hear the differences between tube amps and solid state/digital amps, and that's why although I have several amps, my favorite is my PRIMALUNA DIALOGUE PREMIUM HP tube amplifier!

Seems like @ResitsTrump from Twitter has joined the forum.

 

[carnagymelton]

They were valuable to me.
It is like an innoculation against the undertone of bullshit in this industry...

Just a little personal reality check.

Well, if someone like you benefitted from a little "inoculation" and needed a "personal reality check", I hope others can accord new people here with a little more respect and realize that AB tests are the gold standard upon which MANY will be convinced. AB tests are much more powerful for most people for a variety of reasons than graphs and theories, at least until they get a handle on those theories.

 

[RayDunzl]

I can CLEARLY, ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY hear the differences between tube amps and solid state/digital amps, and that's why although I have several amps, my favorite is my PRIMALUNA DIALOGUE PREMIUM HP tube amplifier!

Why do you want an x-ray holographic DAC when you don't have an x-ray holographic amp "that reproduce it the way it sounds in real life, that's it, in the most possible precise and exact way." ?

https://www.stereophile.com/content/primaluna-dialogue-premium-hp-integrated-amplifier-measurements

 

[carnagymelton]

Well, if someone like you benefitted from a little "inoculation" and needed a "personal reality check", I hope others can accord new people here with a little more respect and realize that AB tests are the gold standard upon which MANY will be convinced. AB tests are much more powerful for most people for a variety of reasons than graphs and theories, at least until they get a handle on those theories.

You basically saved me the trouble of doing an AB test myself. Based on your tests, I am comfortable knowing that I am not missing anything with the E30, unexciting though it may be.