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Recommendation for MOST DETAILED, ANALYTICAL, X-RAY - 3D HOLOGRAPHIC DAC available?

andreasmaaan

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I was referring solely to the type of digital product and measurement spread under discussion in the thread, sorry if I didn't make that clear enough by forgetting to include a list of everything that has ever existed in the entire history of the universe that I wasn't referring to.

I trust that's what you meant, but it's frankly not what you said, which was:
The issue with this site is that no effort is made to correlate measurement with what we perceive we hear.

Perhaps a couple of qualifiers wouldn't have gone astray? ;)

And I agree with you that ad hominem attacks would be best avoided. Let's try to avoid them in future (including against members of the site as a whole).

In terms of previous attempts on this site to correlate measurement (as it relates to products like DACs) to perception, there are many articles and threads on the topic. To begin with, I'll just link to this one, which I started some years back (and assuming you're interested), before my views were quite as well formed as they are today.

Anyway, the main purpose of this post was to ask again if you could provide a link or further details to the test you referenced in the earlier post? Many thanks.
 

sq225917

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A slight sideways spanner in the works.

A quick yes /no answer please gents.

Who can hear the differences between filters on their dac playing redbook?
 

andreasmaaan

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A slight sideways spanner in the works.

A quick yes /no answer please gents.

Who can hear the differences between filters on their dac playing redbook?

No, but haven't really tried hard. Only a couple of the filters in the DAC (Adi-2 DAC FS) are technically correct and I haven't fiddled around much with the ones that aren't.
 

BDWoody

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A slight sideways spanner in the works.

A quick yes /no answer please gents.

Who can hear the differences between filters on their dac playing redbook?

I gave it a good try once and didn't hear any differences, and when I get a new one will generally give a quick flick through the options to see if anything seems obvious, but so far no 'luck.'

I'm also 53, so not going to get much over 15khz or so. I've heard from others that the differences can be heard more in the bass notes, so next time I give it a whirl I'll try to focus on it differently.
 

tw99

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A slight sideways spanner in the works.

A quick yes /no answer please gents.

Who can hear the differences between filters on their dac playing redbook?

My DAC doesn't have selectable filters.
But anyway, you'd have to do a proper controlled test to know whether you can really hear a difference, not just switch between them, sighted.

I'm still interested to hear the full details of your own blind tests that you mentioned in an earlier reply.
 

vert

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Well people asking those kinds of questions on ASR shouldn't be suprised by the response they get... But the fact that those questions have become more frequent on ASR also speaks for the large growth in traffic in the past months... which is good for ASR. As a non specialist who came from the kinds of audio forums that populate 90% of the Internet, I haven't found one convincing criticism of what ASR is doing. Prove to me, in this case, that DACs sound different - how, why. There is simply no proof. I can compare three DACs subjectively, the SMSL 10th Sanskrit II, the Audiophonics AK4495seq and the $3 chip in my Samsung S10, there simply is no difference in terms of 3D, X-RAY or the like. They are all excellent, serviceable decoding devices. Transducers will make a difference, as will DSP. Any distortion or artefact can be emulated by DSP, for those who are into that. DSP EQ can yield great results. I simply don't understand this old game of mixing and matching unproven, non-measured components based on perpetual, neurotic dissatisfaction with what one believes one is hearing, or perhaps not, the subjective online opinions of others or the "expertise" of audio salesmen, in 2021. Such a waste of time, energy and money. People will say the response here can be harsh. In my experience, it gets much worse on other audio forums, based on claims that hardly ever have any scientific basis to them.
 
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Phorize

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Let’s all take a deep breath and remember one thing we are grateful for. I hope the OP finds the answer they are seeking, which seems to be the dac that is the top of the measurements list at any given point, if this site is the main source of advice.

I lost couple of dbs of SINAD when I upgraded my qutest to something more practical. I obviously didn’t expect to hear anything different.
It’s a nice position to be in.
 

blse59

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Hello. I love detailed and analytical "sounding" DACs. The kind of DAC that let you examine your music like if it was an X-RAY machine. The one that does not left any subtlety or sound behind or left and that reproduce it the way it sounds in real life, that's it, in the most possible precise and exact way. I'm heading towards the CHORD QUTEST but would like to know if there is one better. My AMPS are a NAD M22 V2 and a PRIMALUNA DIALOGUE PREMIUM HP with ATC SCM7 speakers and REVEL M106 speakers. Thank you very much!!

It's not the DAC that does this. DACs have been perfected and understood for years I think. They are essentially all transparent. What gives you what you want is not the DAC but the headphone. Since you listed as your criteria "detailed", "analytical", " let you examine your music like if it was an X-RAY machine", "one that does not left any subtlety or sound behind or left and that reproduce it the way it sounds in real life, that's it, in the most possible precise and exact way", I recommend the Etymotic ER4SR.
 
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insoc

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If you are asking for the DACs that measures most overkill on this site and allow for a couple of dB of wriggle room in SINAD, then it's a tie between Mola Mola Tambaqui, Matrix Audio X-SABRE, Topping D90, Matrix Audio Element X, Soncoz SGD1 and Sabaj D5.

Based on your logic, if I want to use the DAC only for listening to music, as all those SIX DACs you listed sound EXACTLY THE SAME, one should be absolutely CRAZY and/or STUPID to pay $10,000 for a MOLA MOLA or $2,000 for a MATRIX AUDIO X or even $699 for a Topping D90, when a Sabaj D5 for just $500 sound exactly the same.

Who in his right mind would like to pay $8,000-9,000 for a MOLA MOLA DAC? Are bragging rights that expensive!?
 
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insoc

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Let’s all take a deep breath and remember one thing we are grateful for. I hope the OP finds the answer they are seeking, which seems to be the dac that is the top of the measurements list at any given point, if this site is the main source of advice.

I lost couple of dbs of SINAD when I upgraded my qutest to something more practical. I obviously didn’t expect to hear anything different.
It’s a nice position to be in.

Do you think it's possible to hear differences between a DAC with a SINAD of 107 vs 114 vs 120 ? 107 is the minimum to be considered BEST, 114 is the Qutest and 120 the Topping D90... If the answer is NOT POSSIBLE and therefore all those DACs SHOULD sound the same, I'd rather choose the QUTEST DAC because it provides filters that, many say, are most distinguishable than other DACs and their filters... Worst case scenario, with the default FILTER, the QUTEST would sound EXACTLY THE SAME as the TOPPING D90 and the $9,000 MOLA MOLA DAC.
 

xykreinov

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Do you think it's possible to hear differences between a DAC with a SINAD of 107 vs 114 vs 120 ? 107 is the minimum to be considered BEST, 114 is the Qutest and 120 the Topping D90... If the answer is NOT POSSIBLE and therefore all those DACs SHOULD sound the same, I'd rather choose the QUTEST DAC because it provides filters that, many say, are most distinguishable than other DACs and their filters... Worst case scenario, with the default FILTER, the QUTEST would sound EXACTLY THE SAME as the TOPPING D90 and the $9,000 MOLA MOLA DAC.
You're intensely overthinking what a DAC's job is. To make things brief, all it needs to do is not push too much noise/distortion. The fact is that most DACs do sound the same- the push for lower distortion is more a neat exercise in engineering at this point. Cheap consumer DACs are pretty much solved, whereas cheap consumer amps still have a lot of room to work on fidelity. You should be more worried about your amp than your DAC.
Anyway, just look at the DAC ranking chart so you don't have to waste your effort in this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_DAC_Performance_Index/
 

Phorize

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Do you think it's possible to hear differences between a DAC with a SINAD of 107 vs 114 vs 120 ? 107 is the minimum to be considered BEST, 114 is the Qutest and 120 the Topping D90... If the answer is NOT POSSIBLE and therefore all those DACs SHOULD sound the same, I'd rather choose the QUTEST DAC because it provides filters that, many say, are most distinguishable than other DACs and their filters... Worst case scenario, with the default FILTER, the QUTEST would sound EXACTLY THE SAME as the TOPPING D90 and the $9,000 MOLA MOLA DAC.

You may want to consider features over basic performance. I’m no engineer but it’s clear that a dac has to perform quite badly, certainly well below average to have a sound. There are significant differences around features though. Although I didn’t find the filters on the qutest very useful, the parametric eq on the rme is extremely useful, especially with headphones.
In a manner of speaking, eq of headphones around areas of deviation from a flat frequency response can improve fidelity, which you seem interested in. Just a thought, and apologies for my sarcasm earlier.
 

Killingbeans

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Based on your logic, if I want to use the DAC only for listening to music, as all those SIX DACs you listed sound EXACTLY THE SAME, one should be absolutely CRAZY and/or STUPID to pay $10,000 for a MOLA MOLA or $2,000 for a MATRIX AUDIO X or even $699 for a Topping D90, when a Sabaj D5 for just $500 sound exactly the same.

I wouldn't say crazy or stupid. Maybe having an extremely unrealistic view of their hearing ability, or being very anxious about something that only extravagant spending can put (temporarily) to rest.

...Or they just dont mind spending that much on build quality, aesthetics, features and what have you.

(IMO, you can reach the point where SQ becomes a moot point for far less than $500)

Who in his right mind would like to pay $8,000-9,000 for a MOLA MOLA DAC? Are bragging rights that expensive!?

I guess? The Tambaqui is a funky engineering exercise that actually works. I would never pay for it (given what I know today), but the exotic nature of it must be speaking to some people. A bit like the Chord products.
 

VintageFlanker

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Do you think it's possible to hear differences between a DAC with a SINAD of 107 vs 114 vs 120 ? 107 is the minimum to be considered BEST, 114 is the Qutest and 120 the Topping D90... If the answer is NOT POSSIBLE and therefore all those DACs SHOULD sound the same
I don't think you did read DAC reviews carefully (enough). SINAD is only a tiny indicator about how a DAC may or may not perform...

Anyway, this thread should not have went that far. Since your initial question has been answered from post #2.;)
 

preload

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Is anyone aware of a controlled, blinded, listening test that was able to demonstrate audible differences between modern DAC's that COULD NOT otherwise be explained by differences in measured characteristics?
 
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