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Recommendation for MOST DETAILED, ANALYTICAL, X-RAY - 3D HOLOGRAPHIC DAC available?

Jimbob54

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Since I spent most of my time here compared to Head-Fi for instance, all I can honestly say that I'm 60% objective and 40% subjective. Sorry to say to people over here that I'm not 100% committed to believing that measurement is everything. I leave some issues to my ears but guided by the forums here. :)

Listening to music is a subjective experience. Buying audio kit comes down to subjective decisions. But I bet you'd base what to shortlist for a new piece of kit based on measurements rather than some baseless waffle.
 

Blumlein 88

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Since I spent most of my time here compared to Head-Fi for instance, all I can honestly say that I'm 60% objective and 40% subjective. Sorry to say to people over here that I'm not 100% committed to believing that measurement is everything. I leave some issues to my ears but guided by the forums here. :)
We all live subjectively. As long as you are honest about which part is subjective and are aware of the objective so it can inform you I don't see a problem.

That is very different than someone who will come here knowing they are in complete disagreement and proceed to post in bad faith.
 

raif71

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The growth has been pretty crazy lately... What used to be a regular but not terribly intrusive part of forum life has become...different. It's like someone turned up the whack-a-mole game to 'hahaha' speed.
Sometimes I'm the one holding the bat eager to whack or I'm the mole getting whacked? lol.
 

BDWoody

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Sometimes I'm the one holding the bat eager to whack or I'm the mole getting whacked? lol.

As long as everybody is clear on your 'safe word,' it's all good! ;)

Here we have a safe phrase... 'in my purely subjective opinion...'. Once that comes out, the bats get lowered. So to speak.
 

Jimbob54

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As long as everybody is clear on your 'safe word,' it's all good! ;)

Here we have a safe phrase... 'in my purely subjective opinion...'. Once that comes out, the bats get lowered. So to speak.

Even then, no need to go full waffle mode. Don't need talk about mid range sparkle or plankton!
 

andreasmaaan

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Let's just be careful to always give people the benefit of the doubt, and to keep giving it perhaps a little longer than seems reasonable.

Most of us would remember how powerful the "subjectivist" worldview is because we've been there.

It takes a lot of work to break out of it, and I think that calls for an extra-large amount of patience from our side.
 

BDWoody

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Let's just be careful to always give people the benefit of the doubt, and to keep giving it perhaps a little longer than seems reasonable.

Most of us would remember how powerful the "subjectivist" worldview is because we've been there.

It takes a lot of work to break out of it, and I think that calls for an extra-large amount of patience from our side.

Indeed. And your example in that regard is worth noting as consistently saint-like.

Also worth remembering is that there are many more who lurk/read than post, and while the responses may not make any difference whatsoever to the new 'mole', they almost certainly will to someone else who has the same question either now or much later.

I don't mind putting a fairly sharp tip on the pencil though once someone has crossed the troll bridge...
 

Jimbob54

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Let's just be careful to always give people the benefit of the doubt, and to keep giving it perhaps a little longer than seems reasonable.

Most of us would remember how powerful the "subjectivist" worldview is because we've been there.

It takes a lot of work to break out of it, and I think that calls for an extra-large amount of patience from our side.
You're right, of course. But deary me some do try the patience of saints.
 

Willem

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I remember the private demo I was once given by Quad's late owner/designer Peter Walker. It was in the days when hifi journalism had started to criticise his amplifier designs, claiming that his successive designs had become increasingly 'unmusical', with his valve amplifier touted as the best, and his most modern 405 current dumping design as the worst. He had bravely commissioned an independent double blind test to respond to the criticism, and that was subsequently published in the authorative journal Wireless World: https://linearaudio.nl/sites/linearaudio.net/files/Valves versus Transistors DCD.pdf Needless to say, even very experienced professional listeners could not distinguish them in this blind test. It was my privilege to enjoy a private version of the test using a Studer recorder playing original master tapes, and it was educating. I had believed that I would have been able to tell them apart, and I thought I did succesfully, until Peter smilingly showed that I had not been better than random. He was a real gentleman, and on that occasion persuaded me that there was no point in upgrading my 303 amplifier to his 405 playing into my Quad ELS 57 speakers ('you would be wasting your money'). Of course, in those days DACs did not yet exist outside of laboratories.
 
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Jimbob54

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I remember the private demo I was once given by Quad's late owner/designer Peter Walker. It was in the days when hifi journalism had started to criticise his amplifier designs, claiming that his successive designs had become increasingly 'unmusical', with his valve amplifier touted as the best, and his most modern 405 current dumping design as the worst. He had bravely commissioned an independent double blind test to respond to the criticism, that was subsequently published in the authorative journal Wireless World: https://linearaudio.nl/sites/linearaudio.net/files/Valves versus Transistors DCD.pdf Needless to say, even very experienced professional listeners could not distinguish them in this blind test. It was my privilege to enjoy a private version of the test using a Studer recorder playing original master tapes, and it was educating. I had believed that I would have been able to tell them apart, and I thought I did succesfully, until Peter smilingly showed that I had not been better than random. He was a real gentleman, and on that occasion persuaded me that there was no point in upgrading my 303 amplifier to his 405 playing into my Quad ELS 57 speakers ('you would be wasting your money'). Of course, in those days DACs did not yet exist outside of laboratories.

"Musicality" - what a mess that term has become, or maybe always was, when describing the audio experience.
 

SJ777

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You're right, of course. But deary me some do try the patience of saints.
Today is All Saints' Day, as luck would have it.

A quick search on Google reveals that:

St Patrick is the Patron Saint of engineers and, by extension, audio engineers.
St Isidore of Seville is the Patron Saint of computers and the internet.
St Albert the Great is the Patron Saint of scientist and researchers.

Unfortunately I couldn't find the the Patron Saint of excessive subjectivism, but St Monica of Hippo is a good choice for help with impatience when we experience too much subjectivism! (Apparently.)
 

cd45123

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Here’s the thing I’m not getting: Is essentially every reviewer experiencing a placebo effect for a hyped new amplifier? Did Doug Schneider really not hear a difference between Purifi and his $40k monoblocks because he did an ABX test? He did say they sounded nearly identical, but clearly he’s reviewed other amps and believe d there to be differences...he’s a member here I think.

Does Putzeys know this when he’s claiming that Purifi is the best amp he’s ever worked on? This is really hard to wrap my head around.

I’m ready to be on board with all speakers sound alike having listened to a new B&W 606, LS Metas, and a Unifi UB5 and thinking they all sound similar if not basically the same sans lower bass for the Elac.
 

Blumlein 88

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Here’s the thing I’m not getting: Is essentially every reviewer experiencing a placebo effect for a hyped new amplifier? Did Doug Schneider really not hear a difference between Purifi and his $40k monoblocks because he did an ABX test? He did say they sounded nearly identical, but clearly he’s reviewed other amps and believe d there to be differences...he’s a member here I think.

Does Putzeys know this when he’s claiming that Purifi is the best amp he’s ever worked on? This is really hard to wrap my head around.

I’m ready to be on board with all speakers sound alike having listened to a new B&W 606, LS Metas, and a Unifi UB5 and thinking they all sound similar if not basically the same sans lower bass for the Elac.
On amps most likely a placebo effect.

On speakers no. Speakers all sound different.

Putzey's claim can be true based on better measured performance. Or performance per dollar. Which might not mean it sounds better.
 

cd45123

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On amps most likely a placebo effect.

On speakers no. Speakers all sound different.

Putzey's claim can be true based on better measured performance. Or performance per dollar. Which might not mean it sounds better.

I hear you on that, but I’m pretty certain he thinks it sounds better...at least when he’s on Darko’s podcast pontificating about this thing and Peter Lyngdorf is saying it’s the best amplifier ever made, they can’t be talking just measurements. I returned my Purifi because I liked my Hegel better, but I did not AB test them, just thought the Hegel had more of its own sound vs the Purifi which didn’t sound like anything...completely neutral...but maybe they were both neutral...
 

Shazb0t

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I hear you on that, but I’m pretty certain he thinks it sounds better...at least when he’s on Darko’s podcast pontificating about this thing and Peter Lyngdorf is saying it’s the best amplifier ever made, they can’t be talking just measurements. I returned my Purifi because I liked my Hegel better, but I did not AB test them, just thought the Hegel had more of its own sound vs the Purifi which didn’t sound like anything...completely neutral...but maybe they were both neutral...
He's trying to sell you something.
 

Robin L

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Today is All Saints' Day, as luck would have it.

A quick search on Google reveals that:

St Patrick is the Patron Saint of engineers and, by extension, audio engineers.
St Isidore of Seville is the Patron Saint of computers and the internet.
St Albert the Great is the Patron Saint of scientist and researchers.

Unfortunately I couldn't find the the Patron Saint of excessive subjectivism, but St Monica of Hippo is a good choice for help with impatience when we experience too much subjectivism! (Apparently.)
Don't forget St. Cecelia, my favorite. Patron Saint of music. Her day is coming up, November 22. Date ring a bell? Also the date "With the Beatles" came out and the obvious source for:

 

Killingbeans

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I hear you on that, but I’m pretty certain he thinks it sounds better...at least when he’s on Darko’s podcast pontificating about this thing and Peter Lyngdorf is saying it’s the best amplifier ever made, they can’t be talking just measurements.

I get the same impression.

I definitely don't think they are just cynics who deliberately prey on the fear of inferior measured performance. Maybe they are simply drinking their own Kool-Aid, I don't know.

I admire the Purifi amps from a technical point of view, but if I was considering building some Class D DIY and stopped for a moment to take a deep breath, the smart move would probably be to go for some Hypex UcD instead. Still Putzey, but more down to earth.
 
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cd45123

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I get the same impression.

I definitely don't think they are just cynics who deliberately prey on the fear of inferior measured performance. Maybe they are simply drinking their own Kool-Aid, I don't know.

I admire the Purifi amps from a technical point of view, but if I was considering building some Class D DIY and stopped for a moment to take a deep breath, the smart move would probably be to go for some Hypex UcD in stead. Still Putzey, but more down to earth.

I think about trying class D again with Hypex, idk, more power so I can see if it makes any difference with the Unifi. Seems pretty good though on the 60w amp I have now...

I’m definitely a cynic and am drawn to this place and destroying a lot of the dogma that comes with overpriced hi-fi. I’ve returned 3 DACs in the last month due to not being able to hear any discernible difference. AKM vs ESS, this chip vs that, this analogue stage vs that, can’t truly tell the difference.
 

Blumlein 88

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I hear you on that, but I’m pretty certain he thinks it sounds better...at least when he’s on Darko’s podcast pontificating about this thing and Peter Lyngdorf is saying it’s the best amplifier ever made, they can’t be talking just measurements. I returned my Purifi because I liked my Hegel better, but I did not AB test them, just thought the Hegel had more of its own sound vs the Purifi which didn’t sound like anything...completely neutral...but maybe they were both neutral...
If the Purifi sounded like nothing what did the Hegel sound like?

And yes he is trying to sell you something.
 

cd45123

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If the Purifi sounded like nothing what did the Hegel sound like?

And yes he is trying to sell you something.
It just wasn’t as detailed - or let’s say the detail was there in the Hegel, but it wasn’t as apparent as the Purifi. There was just more of a richness/thickness to the sound with the Hegel...but I guess there wasn’t.

Since Putzeys is a member and he seems to have gone through another thread taking on all questions, it would be interesting to hear (no pun intended) his take on all of this.
 
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