Rear height placement to work with Auro 3D and Atmos

[John24]

Hi all,

I am just looking for some advice. I'm going through quite a few changes to my setup, I got an Arendal 1723S center channel coming in soon and in few days will have Denon X4700H. I am working towards a full Atmos 5.2.4 / Auro 3D 9.1 set-up.

As far as the front goes I think everything is fine and meets both the Auro 3D and Atmos requirements:

However I am not sure what to do when it comes to the back.
As sadly I do not have much space at all, since there is window and radiator. The sofa is already 20" from the back wall and can't move it any further into the room:

For a simple Atmos set-up I could just place speakers right above on the ceiling (red) pointing down BUT that will not work properly with Auro 3D, so I'm wondering if placing speakers on the walls angled down just above the surrounds (blue) would work for both?

Any advice highly appreciated

 

[pacman9270]

DM recommends a Rear Height speaker placement for Auro/Atmos combination setup. Remember to set the rear/surround heights to REAR and not SURROUND. Atmos will not use the SURROUND heights. I confirmed this myself with my setup. I'm using a Marantz AV8802A.

 

[John24]

It appears that on the newer D+M receivers Atmos will work with sound height as well:

 

[Sancus]

It appears that on the newer D+M receivers Atmos will work with sound height as well:

Nah, the poster above is correct. That's what it shows -- and it will use the front heights for Atmos, but it will not use Surround Heights for Atmos, only Rears. I've tested it, you don't get audio out of them.

Considering that Auro3D is almost exclusively used for upmixing, this means you should just run your heights as Rear Heights regardless of their positioning. There is really not much, if any, difference in the upmixed output for those channels, but the Atmos sound field is improved significantly by having the extra 2 height channels.

In your case, the speakers will be behind the listeners anyways so I would put them high up on the walls and set them as Rear Heights for sure.

 

[John24]

Nah, the poster above is correct. That's what it shows -- and it will use the front heights for Atmos, but it will not use Surround Heights for Atmos, only Rears. I've tested it, you don't get audio out of them.

Considering that Auro3D is almost exclusively used for upmixing, this means you should just run your heights as Rear Heights regardless of their positioning. There is really not much, if any, difference in the upmixed output for those channels, but the Atmos sound field is improved significantly by having the extra 2 height channels.

In your case, the speakers will be behind the listeners anyways so I would put them high up on the walls and set them as Rear Heights for sure.

I see, well that's stupid labelling by Denon then! I even looked in the manual on the 4700H and the surround height should work with Atmos.
So you're saying it won't stop Atmos working but it will not send any sound to surround height unless they're set as rear height surround speakers?

 

[Sancus]

I see, well that's stupid labelling by Denon then! I even looked in the manual on the 4700H and the surround height should work with Atmos.
So you're saying it won't stop Atmos working but it will not send any sound to surround height unless they're set as rear height surround speakers?

Yep, that is my experience from testing. Also, I'm pretty sure that "Support Format" line refers to the configuration as a whole, not specific speakers. So that configuration DOES support Atmos, it just only uses the front height speakers for it.

 

[John24]

Yep, that is my experience from testing. Also, I'm pretty sure that "Support Format" line refers to the configuration as a whole, not specific speakers. So that configuration DOES support Atmos, it just only uses the front height speakers for it.

Ok, thank you for your insight! I'll position then above surrounds but set them as rear heights, and yes the way surrounds are they actually are slightly behind the sofa so it should be fine

 

[wseroyer]

Hi all,

I am just looking for some advice. I'm going through quite a few changes to my setup, I got an Arendal 1723S center channel coming in soon and in few days will have Denon X4700H. I am working towards a full Atmos 5.2.4 / Auro 3D 9.1 set-up.

As far as the front goes I think everything is fine and meets both the Auro 3D and Atmos requirements:

However I am not sure what to do when it comes to the back.
As sadly I do not have much space at all, since there is window and radiator. The sofa is already 20" from the back wall and can't move it any further into the room:

For a simple Atmos set-up I could just place speakers right above on the ceiling (red) pointing down BUT that will not work properly with Auro 3D, so I'm wondering if placing speakers on the walls angled down just above the surrounds (blue) would work for both?

Any advice highly appreciated

I just did this in my room using a Denon AVR x4700h as well, mount them to the ceiling using a speaker ceiling mount and point them down at the listening position using a laser pointer to get the tweeter angle correct, make sure you have the back high channels set to "REAR HEIGHT" in the AVR and not side height or else Dolby Atmos will default to 5.1.2 and not 5.1.4, this was a mistake I made, also you can use the Sub out 2 for a Voice of God channel if you want in a 10.1 configuration.

 

[wseroyer]

It appears that on the newer D+M receivers Atmos will work with sound height as well:

This won't work, I tried it, thought the same thing, it only used my front height's for ATMOS content.

 

[keenly]

I set up Atmos and listen to Auro that way. Speakers under ceiling, 2 in fornt of MLP and 2 behind. Works etter than conventional Auro set up.

 

[wseroyer]

I set up Atmos and listen to Auro that way. Speakers under ceiling, 2 in fornt of MLP and 2 behind. Works etter than conventional Auro set up.

Personally I think it sounds better to point the tweeter at the listener no matter what set up your using, pointing the tweeter at the floor in front of the listener just doesn't make any since to me.

 

[Sancus]

Personally I think it sounds better to point the tweeter at the listener no matter what set up your using, pointing the tweeter at the floor in front of the listener just doesn't make any since to me.

You're not supposed to point tweeters at the floor. Nobody advises doing this it's just that it happens to be a cheap/simple ceiling speaker design.

There's a bunch of other differences between Auro and Atmos height placement, the Trinnov guide has the best summary of all the options I've seen.

 

[keenly]

You're not supposed to point tweeters at the floor. Nobody advises doing this it's just that it happens to be a cheap/simple ceiling speaker design.

There's a bunch of other differences between Auro and Atmos height placement, the Trinnov guide has the best summary of all the options I've seen.

Yes but Atmos placement works for Auro, and is actually better IMO.

 

[John24]

Yes but Atmos placement works for Auro, and is actually better IMO.

Auro is said to be the other way around. That it's placement is better for Atmos listening too.
I'm my old setup when I just had the front two heights I pointed the speakers at the mlp but sightly above the head and that created a nice overheard effect.

I'm about to finish my new Auro 3D setup this week, so really excited.

 

[Sancus]

Yes but Atmos placement works for Auro, and is actually better IMO.

This contradicts most professional/official advice and is contrary to my experience as well, but there's quite a bit of variation possible here based on the speakers you are using and your room dimensions, distances, and angles to the listening position, so do whatever works for you!

 

[John24]

This contradicts most professional/official advice and is contrary to my experience as well, but there's quite a bit of variation possible here based on the speakers you are using and your room dimensions, distances, and angles to the listening position, so do whatever works for you!

That's why I feel Atmos is a mess. Auro 3D spec is quite consistent for heights. 30 degrees height elevation is what you need to aim for. Atmos now gives you this massive window of 30 to 150 degrees and that's just overheard spec.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Ok, thank you for your insight! I'll position then above surrounds but set them as rear heights, and yes the way surrounds are they actually are slightly behind the sofa so it should be fine

Just make sure the angle between the surround and height tweeter is between 30-35 degrees,

 

[Soundmixer]

That's why I feel Atmos is a mess. Auro 3D spec is quite consistent for heights. 30 degrees height elevation is what you need to aim for. Atmos now gives you this massive window of 30 to 150 degrees and that's just overheard spec.

Atmos isn't a mess. Dolby has been consistent about their overhead speaker placement since Atmos was released to the public. They have been as consistent about their speaker setup as Auro has been about theirs.

That overhead spec conforms with how an Atmos studio with a 7.1.4 monitoring system is to be set up. This ensures some sort of conformity between the production and reproduction of the content.

 

[DutchJay]

That's why I feel Atmos is a mess. Auro 3D spec is quite consistent for heights. 30 degrees height elevation is what you need to aim for. Atmos now gives you this massive window of 30 to 150 degrees and that's just overheard spec.

How did it turn out??

Is there a big difference adding the new surround hights?

I have exactly the same set up with 2 front hights in place above my fronts and the sofa against the wall with 2 surrounds placed in the same position (about 1.5 foot above ear level). How far is your mlp from the fronts?

Thing is that because the surrounds are a bit higher I already feel like a lot of surrouns effects come from above. And with the front hights I get a wall off sound from the front.

So will two surround hights add anything?

Quite a hassle with wires etc.

Really anxious to hear your experience.

Thanks.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Personally I think it sounds better to point the tweeter at the listener no matter what set up your using, pointing the tweeter at the floor in front of the listener just doesn't make any since to me.

Definitely not true with Auro. Heights s.b. 30 degrees in relation to the base level AND pointing level to the plane of the floor.