Question - Tidal MQA quality without an MQA-capable DAC

[Nutul]

It's supported on Apple devices and many Android phones, just no DAPs. And yes, it works on headphones similar to 360RA.

Yes, right, but that will just (IMO) make use of Atmos' most useful feature: scalability (downwards, that is... from a gazillion of channels, to the stereo-only any headphone is capable of reproducing), so, actually, not what Atmos can do with a proper setup; that was basically my point.
As for the availability on every phone... I find it useless too, for the same reason; unless the phone itself is the main streaming device that then connects (wirelessly? USB? - let's leave BT out of the equation, of course) to a proper Atmos system...

 

[rlw6534]

Yes, right, but that will just (IMO) make use of Atmos' most useful feature: scalability (downwards, that is... from a gazillion of channels, to the stereo-only any headphone is capable of reproducing), so, actually, not what Atmos can do with a proper setup; that was basically my point.
As for the availability on every phone... I find it useless too, for the same reason; unless the phone itself is the main streaming device that then connects (wirelessly? USB? - let's leave BT out of the equation, of course) to a proper Atmos system...

I wouldn't expect everybody to like Atmos on headphones as it can sound unnatural at times. But I do use it when streaming Apple Music from my iPhone. Basically it's a feature some would like and others, not so much. What's a bit frustrating is that many expensive DAPs don't have some basic features that one might expect from a premium audio device, i.e. PEQ and various sound processing options, etc. Maybe this will improve with time, but selling hardware seems to be the driving force, not improved software.

 

[jkelley209]

Lossless FLAC at 16/44kHz is an excellent carrier for music. It's almost certainly better than any MQA equivalent: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/mqa-a-review-of-controversies-concerns-and-cautions-r701/

What everyone seems to forget is MQA gets rid of the blur that occurs when analog is converted to digital. It is the SACD of regular CD's . I'm sad to see it didn't catch on but the general public always seems to pick the sub standard instead of the high quality. VHS over Bata Max and letting HDCD go by the wayside.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

What everyone seems to forget is MQA gets rid of the blur that occurs when analog is converted to digital. It is the SACD of regular CD's . I'm sad to see it didn't catch on but the general public always seems to pick the sub standard instead of the high quality. VHS over Bata Max and letting HDCD go by the wayside.

Welcome to ASR.

If you read around the forum a bit you will discover that quite a few members have a low opinion of MQA, and especially consider that this "blur" does not exist.

 

[jkelley209]

I understand but I think the crystal clearity of MQA is something that makes the FLAC and other so called lossless files (which is impossible BTW) take a weak second.

 

[Verig]

What everyone seems to forget is MQA gets rid of the blur that occurs when analog is converted to digital.

First digital is deemed harsh compared to vinyl records and now we have come a full circle and everyday digital is called blurry and needs a rescue.
I'm sure all the recording studios and artist finally heard their tracks as intended, not messy, and were very much on board. Hmm... wait...

 

[Peterinvan]

isnt dolby atmos a free feature in any modern even half way decent phone?

ALSO "Tidal drops MQA for FLAC" is about the most damning thing ever

we're going back to a free lossless carrier over a proprietry codec that requires significant expenditure on hardware for Tidal and the end user for very little benefit

i would also posit there's significant technical support issues on both end especially for the consumer that do not exist with current free codecs

thanks meridian and lenbrooke for this grand experiment

As a Tidal listener, it's a great relief that they are no longer streaming MQA.

I am happy that my FiiO K7 price did not include an MQA license fee.

 

[jkelley209]

Remember one thing businesses rarely target are the sophisticated upper crust they go after the masses who are always willing to settle for less quality in favor of price. So Tital dumping MQA tells me that it was a premium excellent product.

 

[Verig]

Remember one thing businesses rarely target are the sophisticated upper crust they go after the masses who are always willing to settle for less quality in favor of price. So Tital dumping MQA tells me that it was a premium excellent product.

The very idea of Tidal was hi-res compared to Spotify and it comes with a higher price. If that is not the upper crust I'm not sure how up we need to go.
Siding with a money making (license selling) scheme is not a guarantee of the product being any good. MQA claims are dubious and evidence of people hearing any difference are where?

Welcome to ASR.

 

[Jimbob54]

Remember one thing businesses rarely target are the sophisticated upper crust they go after the masses who are always willing to settle for less quality in favor of price. So Tital dumping MQA tells me that it was a premium excellent product.

Friendly word of warning. You need to bring something more to the ASR party than rehashed and now moribund MQA spiel. Please.

 

[jkelley209]

well, I just discovered MQA 4 months ago and was surprised how excellent it was and after watching every YouTube and reading as much as I could about it, I realized how truly brilliant Bob Stewart is. So I'm sorry if I haven't read all that you guys have written. It is my belief all the oscilloscope lovers have not listened to MQA ..

 

[voodooless]

FLAC and other so called lossless files (which is impossible BTW)

Please enlighten us on this titbit?

So Tital dumping MQA tells me that it was a premium excellent product.

No, it tells you that MQA went bankrupt and therefore it has no place in the Tidal catalog anymore.

 

[jkelley209]

No that tells you the teaming masses that bring down the quality to their mediocre level WON!!! And quality and great sound lost!!

 

[jkelley209]

BTW TIDEL ISN'T Owned by a financial genus ... TIDAL's financial issues, including multimillion-dollar losses for 10 straight quarters; some $127 million in liabilities, largely in the form of unpaid streaming fees to record labels; and a $50 million loan that Jay-Z extended the company in 2020.

 

[voodooless]

BTW TIDEL ISN'T Owned by a financial genus

That’s irrelevant. Tidal is still there (for now), MQA is not.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

the FLAC and other so called lossless files (which is impossible BTW

FLAC is lossless. It's 100% possible to make a lossless format. Just think of ZIP compression which makes smaller files without throwing any data away.

I'm going to be blunt. You absolutely do not have a clue what you are talking about. Start doing some proper reading and research. Take some time to learn.

 

[Nutul]

well, I just discovered MQA 4 months ago and was surprised how excellent it was and after watching every YouTube and reading as much as I could about it, I realized how truly brilliant Bob Stewart is. So I'm sorry if I haven't read all that you guys have written. It is my belief all the oscilloscope lovers have not listened to MQA ..

This is called expectation bias.
You should have watched also the video by Archiemago about a conference with the MQA brigade basically skipping over the very clue of the format, and arguing over it actually being lossless (and not just reinventing the wheel, but this time more expensively...)

- Lossless IS possible, to the extent of the granularity available nowadays, in terms of sampling frequencies and bit-depths.
For what concerns the human hearing apparatus (brain included):
- you do not need MHz sampling rates to reproduce sounds in the early tens of kHz... your ear won't be able to discern a variation in tonality lasting a mere microsecond, to be able to remember it, let alone compare it with something else.
- MQA was just an attempt to bring focus to the audiophile (-phool) community, and extort (yes, extort) money from musicians, producers, studios, audio-equipment manufacturers, and final users. Actually, it was (had it worked the way it was intended to. of course, but karma does exist...) the golden-egg-chicken...
Luckily (or, better, trhanks to educated people analysis) it revealed itself for what it really was: just an attempt to a legalized robbery.

Re-think. Re-read. Re-listen. Re-evaluate.

Ah, almost forgot...
Welcome to ASR.

 

[Deckard01]

The only sad about tidal with the new Android versions that MQA is dropped, is that still we do not have bit-perfect with our dacs.

This is too bad for me, as we loose all the enjoy of HI-RES to many of our android devices.

Hope to be fixed after mqa drop, but sadly not.

 

[Jimbob54]

The only sad about tidal with the new Android versions that MQA is dropped, is that still we do not have bit-perfect with our dacs.

This is too bad for me, as we loose all the enjoy of HI-RES to many of our android devices.

Hope to be fixed after mqa drop, but sadly not.

UAPP or Hiby player apps. I prefer the first (small fee) but the second works (free)

 

[Graham849]

well, I just discovered MQA 4 months ago and was surprised how excellent it was and after watching every YouTube and reading as much as I could about it, I realized how truly brilliant Bob Stewart is. So I'm sorry if I haven't read all that you guys have written. It is my belief all the oscilloscope lovers have not listened to MQA ..

Welcome to ASR.

My only comment, with respect for your investigation, is that if you are listening to MQA deciphered tracks and enjoying that sound, it is because of hearing loss at your age. I looked into it three years ago, and believe that folding origami frequencys cannot improve the orginal sound, any perceived nuance is an artefact.