Quebec audiophile shows off his new Hi-Fi system, very expensive set up

[Sokel]

I have no idea where you are going with this.

I said: "This is ASR, so in the sense of science these are bad decisions, such as the cables."

Is anything about that statement disagreeable? In terms of audio science, this selection of audio gear is a bad decision.

On value per buck maybe they are.
In terms of audio science not so much.

Treated room (that's a huge differentiator for SQ no matter the gear) ,nice gear with probably enough juice to cover lifelike SPL,etc. and without any audible "character".
Cables won't make things worst either.
So not a bad decision,just a pricey one which no one should care about.

 

[wavetrade]

Reminds me of "the napster" on the newer Italian Job movie. He wanted to be able to blow the clothes off of women using sound.

 

[Chrispy]

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I don't think having fancy cables disqualifies you from being an audiophile, whether they actually enhance the sound or not.

How can they enhance sound? Fancy is one thing, grossly overpriced stuff from the charlatans like Furutech, another.

 

[CleanSound]

On value per buck maybe they are.
In terms of audio science not so much.

Treated room (that's a huge differentiator for SQ no matter the gear) ,nice gear with probably enough juice to cover lifelike SPL,etc. and without any audible "character".
Cables won't make things worst either.
So not a bad decision,just a pricey one which no one should care about.

Well, I wasn't talking about the room, nor the room treatments. I was talking about the audio gear, which includes the speakers, electronics and of course the cables.

Sounds like we agree that we don't need to talk about the cables. So let's talk about the speakers and electronics. My statement and I quote "in the sense of science these are bad decisions."

Those B&W costs $40k and there are many published specs on the science loud speaker measurements of B&W, they don't measure well. From a dollar to dollar comparison, a $1k USD Ascend Acoustic out performs these B&W.

Now the CD Player/DAC and preamp, tube, need I say anymore?

Then the amp, I believe those mono blocks measures decent, but at $27k is that a good decision based on science? A dual amplification Purifi will do a better job at a much lower cost.

Then you have the power conditioner, I don't think I need to further comment on that.

Anyway, again, I said nothing about aesthetics, personal preference, luxury goods, etc, etc. I just said from a science perspective, these are bad decisions. Besides, this is the internet after all, you will get criticism no matter what, if he doesn't like it, he shouldn't be posting on YouTube.

And just to be clear, I've said that I am happy for him to be able to afford all of these expensive toys. I never have, don't now and never will hate on people are are rich, I only congratulate and appreciate.

 

[Sokel]

Well, I wasn't talking about the room, nor the room treatments. I was talking about the audio gear, which includes the speakers, electronics and of course the cables.

Sounds like we agree that we don't need to talk about the cables. So let's talk about the speakers and electronics. My statement and I quote "in the sense of science these are bad decisions."

Those B&W costs $40k and there are many published specs on the science loud speaker measurements of B&W, they don't measure well. From a dollar to dollar comparison, a $1k USD Ascend Acoustic out performs these B&W.

Now the CD Player/DAC and preamp, tube, need I say anymore?

Then the amp, I believe those mono blocks measures decent, but at $27k is that a good decision based on science? A dual amplification Purifi will do a better job at a much lower cost.

Then you have the power conditioner, I don't think I need to further comment on that.

Anyway, again, I said nothing about aesthetics, personal preference, luxury goods, etc, etc. I just said from a science perspective, these are bad decisions. Besides, this is the internet after all, you will get criticism no matter what, if he doesn't like it, he shouldn't be posting on YouTube.

And just to be clear, I've said that I am happy for him to be able to afford all of these expensive toys. I never have, don't now and never will hate on people are are rich, I only congratulate and appreciate.

In general,all the sources are in the inaubible region it terms of THD+N for sure and I wouldn't even think to compare the continuous 1200 watt performance of the Macs with Purifi expect MAYBE for the top power module (which doesn't measure as perfect as the smaller) mounted in a similar case with the same heat dissipation ability and still that's a big if.

Scientifically speaking also (since we go to inaudible area) distortion above 5-10Khz is probably much better.

I only wonder for one thing.
Would it take the same blows if he had a pair of 8381A fed by a Mola-Mola DAC?
Or an untouchable Halcro Eclpipse (in terms of measurements as it's price is similar to Mac) with some big (and I mean big) 3-way like Magico?

It seems so as we all know.And there's nothing scientific about it.

 

[Sal1950]

Cables won't make things worst either.

This is possible.
I bought a couple pair of Kimber PBJ cables back in 1994 after Corey Greenberg and others in the believer cult assured
me they would be the best thing in cables since sliced bread for PBJ money. The unshielded design immediately picked
up a loud hum from my VTL tube amps (I think) and were unusable, no blind testing needed.
I'm sure there are some cables out there who's electrical characteristics do cause a measurable and audible FR variations.

 

[fpitas]

This is possible.
I bought a couple pair of Kimber PBJ cables back in 1994 after Corey Greenberg and others in the believer cult assured
me they would be the best thing in cables since sliced bread for PBJ money. The unshielded design immediately picked
up a loud hum from my VTL tube amps (I think) and were unusable, no blind testing needed.
I'm sure there are some cables out there who's electrical characteristics do cause a measurable and audible FR variations.

You probably just needed to burn them in

 

[Sokel]

This is possible.
I bought a couple pair of Kimber PBJ cables back in 1994 after Corey Greenberg and others in the believer cult assured
me they would be the best thing in cables since sliced bread for PBJ money. The unshielded design immediately picked
up a loud hum from my VTL tube amps (I think) and were unusable, no blind testing needed.
I'm sure there are some cables out there who's electrical characteristics do cause a measurable and audible FR variations.

Oh,I have horror stories too about bad cables,don't let me started.
You should see the insides of a Transparent one with inductor and cap encapsulated (the calc said that anything above 5Khz was slaughtered,gently but slaughtered )

 

[CleanSound]

In general,all the sources are in the inaubible region it terms of THD+N for sure and I wouldn't even think to compare the continuous 1200 watt performance of the Macs with Purifi expect MAYBE for the top power module (which doesn't measure as perfect as the smaller) mounted in a similar case with the same heat dissipation ability and still that's a big if.

Scientifically speaking also (since we go to inaudible area) distortion above 5-10Khz is probably much better.

I only wonder for one thing.
Would it take the same blows if he had a pair of 8381A fed by a Mola-Mola DAC?
Or an untouchable Halcro Eclpipse with some big (and I mean big) 3-way like Magico?

It seems so as we all know.And there's nothing scientific about it.

If the argument of the gear is not audible in the THD+N region than shouldn't this automatically declare the entire system as a bad decision in terms of science? He could of gotten something else for a much cheaper price? Again, I'm not talking about aesthetics or luxury, I'm purely taking about audio science performance.

Look, from the bottom of my heart, I am truly happy for the man, to do so well in life and able to afford such an expensive system. I admire that I wish I was in his shoes and I send my warmest congrats to this man. But I deem it as a bad decision from the lens of audio science. Again, that doesn't mean I hate the guy, and that doesn't mean he should change anything not should my opinion or anyone else's matter to him. And if it doesn't matter to him what I and others think, then I shall think away and express such thinking freely.

 

[Sokel]

If the argument of the gear is not audible in the THD+N region than shouldn't this automatically declare the entire system as a bad decision in terms of science? He could of gotten something else for a much cheaper price?

Read my first post again,you said exactly the same.
Pricier,which should not be of our concern expect someone forced us to pay for it.

 

[DonR]

Oh,I have horror stories too about bad cables,don't let me started.
You should see the insides of a Transparent one with inductor and cap encapsulated (the calc said that anything above 5Khz was slaughtered,gently but slaughtered )

Fears like this is the only thing stopping me from buying knock-off Nordost from Aliexpress for shits and giggles.

 

[G|force]

In the late 90's I went to an open house at a stereo store in Bel Air CA. The evening was hosted by Transparent who brought along speaker cables with and without the network boxes on them. Statement XL or whatever.

After the demo my friend and I asked the rep if the cables were available for sale without the boxes, because frankly in all cases they sounded better.

The answer was NO with a sneer.

 

[Sokel]

Fears like this is the only thing stopping me from buying knock-off Nordost from Aliexpress for shits and giggles.

Yep.And that should not be your only fear about knock-offs.
I wouldn't even touch them before a continuity test with my OWN gear,specially the ones with multiple twisted pairs as their ends don't meet in some cases

 

[CleanSound]

Read my first post again,you said exactly the same.
Pricier,which should not be of our concern expect someone forced us to pay for it.

And I am saying it's not my concern but it is my and others open criticism, which we are entitled to.

 

[Sokel]

And I am saying it's not my concern but it is my and others open criticism, which we are entitled to.

Of course you are.
But the science behind pricing,luxury market,etc is not audio science,is more important than that in practice as the world evolves around it.

There's around 16m millionaires in the world at this time,don't you think they would want to enjoy their wealth in non-sensible buys of any kind?
Much more when a room-system (I never see them in any other way) is probably as good as anyone?
(speakers are taste only stuff as long as they can deliver such SPL without compression) .

 

[CleanSound]

Of course you are.
But the science behind pricing,luxury market,etc is not audio science,is more important than that in practice as the world evolves around it.

There's around 16m millionaires in the world at this time,don't you think they would want to enjoy their wealth in non-sensible buys of any kind?
Much more when a room-system (I never see them in any other way) is probably as good as anyone?
(speakers are taste only stuff as long as they can deliver such SPL without compression) .

I agree that luxury and pricing is not audio science, hence I am not talking about that. I said "in the sense of science these are bad decisions." Which means I was only referring to the audio science portion. That doesn't mean I think the man made a mistake if he was a brand whore and wanted the brand, or he liked the looks.

He is entitled to that and there is nothing I can do about it nor should I be able to influence him and he shouldn't care what mine and others criticism are.

But on the same token, I and others have every right to provide just or unjust criticism or express opinion (given we aren't doing any cyber bullying). And trust me, no one expects that our criticism nor opinion will change any decision this man has made which isn't our intent anyway.

As such, I shall double down on my criticism: from an audio science standpoint, this system is a bad decision.

 

[Sokel]

As such, I shall double down on my criticism: from an audio science standpoint, this system is a bad decision.

Ok,I'll bite.
What would you choose?
Consider a room at this size and the need is lifelike SPL (so 120-130db SLP peaks at least,as this is what Genelec describes as such),care free operation,top pre and after sale service (very important) and probably a very good reselling value.
Looks at your disposal.

ONLY one MLP.

 

[sigbergaudio]

How can they enhance sound? Fancy is one thing, grossly overpriced stuff from the charlatans like Furutech, another.

That's not the point. He is clearly an enthusiast and thus an audiophile. What kind of cables he's got doesn't change that.

 

[CleanSound]

Ok,I'll bite.
What would you choose?
Consider a room at this size and the need is lifelike SPL (so 120-130db SLP peaks at least,as this is what Genelec describes as such),care free operation,top pre and after sale service (very important) and probably a very good reselling value.
Looks at your disposal.

ONLY one MLP.

I'll bite in return.

But where are you getting the SPL requirements from? I personally listen at mid 60's to low 70's db at distance, and sometimes mid to high 70's db at distance. I don't think I listen to beyond 85 db at distance, at least not in the last 10 years. Even when I was younger, I don't listen to music that loud, it hurts my ears if I do for a prolonge period. But that's just me personally, so I will list what I would buy at my preferred listening volume level.

I could do a D&D 8c or a Kii 3 with BXT and call it a day.

Or I could do the usual suspects of speakers, say Revel, to Ascend to KEF, to Perlisten, Perlisten which is what I have now. I would probably do multiple speakers so I can switch things around but since money is no object, one of the speakers would be the Perlisten S7t Limited Edition, MSRP $30K.

I would definitely get dual subs, it can be the same speaker brands as listed above.

I could do dual amplification or dual bridge mono if I so desire the level of SPL. I would be looking at Dutch and Danish Class D or the Benchmark, if I care to chase SINAD, but I also recognize it's likely below my hearing threshold, so I could find a Bryston. I personally like silver casework, so it would never be a MacIntosh, not to mention I don't like their design, way too old fashion looking for my personal taste. Though I do like the Japanese vintage look. I'm actually in the market for a new amp and I am seriously considering the Apollon dual mono Hypex NCx500.

I like 430mm wide casework, all the Chinese brand DACs are kid's toy-like desktop form factor, so I will probably look at the Okto Research DAC, but right now, I don't have a perfect DAC I would like to buy when it comes to aesthetics.

EDIT: Also, the claim that Ultra low THD+N is not necessary, say with 3 zero's after the decimal. I argue against that, my pet peeves when it comes to amps, is the hissing noise when there is no music playing. Pause your source, crank the volume up all the way, put your ears next to the speakers and hear that hiss. That really pisses me off, despite I will never hear it from distance and I would never do that in practice. But there should be no excuses for such hissing and that is a design of an amp with poor noise floor. My current DIY Hypex is dead silent. Even my SMSL with the infineon Class D is dead silent. So for me personally, an amp with THD+N of 3 zero's or more is a must.

 

[Chrispy]

That's not the point. He is clearly an enthusiast and thus an audiophile. What kind of cables he's got doesn't change that.

If the cables had something to do with the high fidelity playback perhaps, but they don't. They're simply jewelry at best, and harming the signal at worst, which if that's what you like, great, but to me has little to do with being an audiophile, more a tweakophile at that point. YMMV.