Powernode (2021) vs H/K Citation vs Sonos Amp vs NAD D 3045

[PeterOo]

You have to use the Google app. So to use a very expensive Harman Kardon hardware you have paid for in full, you have to fork over your data to Google.

“…You will first have to set it up through Google Home to be able to use it with any other functions, it runs on the Google Home firmware, without completing this initial setup you cant use it.….”


Then how long will Google and Harman Kardon commit to supporting your access to your settings, Harman Kardon refused to say or commit.

Like I wrote above: that is a Google requirement for Chromecast built in. There is nothing HK can do about that. If you want to use Chromecast you will have to play by Google’s rules.
You can however use the Amp fine with bluetooth or Airplay without using this app.
you still need the webinterface though to control treble, cross-over freq. etc.

 

[Sam3]

Like I wrote above: that is a Google requirement for Chromecast built in. There is nothing HK can do about that. If you want to use Chromecast you will have to play by Google’s rules.
You can however use the Amp fine with bluetooth or Airplay without using this app.
you still need the webinterface though to control treble, cross-over freq. etc.

No. That was their response to how can I access the sound EQ. There are no hardware controls on the device nor remote to access those function. And not an on-screen display for that either.

To access the fullt sound eq functions of this hardware you need the app, which is not even a HK app. This confirmed by HK in my long dialogue with them, including many rounds of escalating the case, while I owned the device.

Without a third app, you don’t get the access to full functionality of the hardware. And of course Google doesn’t care about your hardware purchase. And HK has no control of the data privacy nor existence of that app.

It’s a shocking design choice for an expensive hardware that could last 20 years.

But in any case this amplifier cannot even be started up or installed without a network connection or connection to a smartphone.

 

[NTK]

From the manual.

 

[Sam3]

1) Set up of this amp requires network connection or app with a network connnection. Otherwise its non-functional entirely.

2) EQ settings not available on amp front panel nor on the remote, nor are they assignable to vgeneric remote

3) EQ settings not available from browser on MAC

4) While claimed to work on PC, clearly not all of them and not on mine. verified by HK tech support. And I got my money back.

5) Device ran extremely hot and did not seem to be anyway this would last many years at those temperatures.

6) Shrill basic sound, very fatiguing and doubly a problem given you cannot simply adjust the sound for sure,

All of which lead back to my point. This is not an amp that has the functionality properly accessible, nor in a way that will last the lifetime of the actual hardware. It’s a trap. And not worthy of the HK Citation brand. Or the price point.

 

[PeterOo]

1) Set up of this amp requires network connection or app with a network connnection. Otherwise its non-functional entirely.

2) EQ settings not available on amp front panel nor on the remote, nor are they assignable to vgeneric remote

3) EQ settings not available from browser on MAC

4) While claimed to work on PC, clearly not all of them and not on mine. verified by HK tech support. And I got my money back.

5) Device ran extremely hot and did not seem to be anyway this would last many years at those temperatures.

6) Shrill basic sound, very fatiguing and doubly a problem given you cannot simply adjust the sound for sure,

All of which lead back to my point. This is not an amp that has the functionality properly accessible, nor in a way that will last the lifetime of the actual hardware. It’s a trap. And not worthy of the HK Citation brand. Or the price point.

I am glad you got your money back.
Hope venting your frustration here gave you some satisfaction.

What amp are you using now?

 

[Sam3]

I am glad you got your money back.
Hope venting your frustration here gave you some satisfaction.

What amp are you using now?

Am providing accurate information and details as to what the limitations and requirements of this device are. As the claims on the box are not in alignment with what the reality of the device are. In particular the setup and operability. Which matter to begin with, but more so in light of the basic sound deficiency I experienced.

And unlike you, I will not stoop to smear or disparage you for statements I disagreed with.

My posts in this thread detailed what I am using. But that’s not the point. Point is for potential buyer to know what this purchase entails. Particularly if you might not be able to return it or if it might cost money to do so.

 

[PeterOo]

sorry, I was not trying to smear you.
You complained about the sound and the fact that you must use the google home app to use any functionality. Myself and @NTK tried to explain how you can use the amp without the Google Home app, but you just keep repeating that this is not possible. Apparently you have been misinformed by HK customer care, which would be bad service.
I am able to operate the amp from a Mac or PC for over a year, so there might be something specific to your configuration.
your respons is just repeating your claims.
my conclusion is that you are not really interested in a solution, so I will no longer respond.

I am aware of quirks and bugs of the Citation Amp as you can see in my posts.

 

[Sam3]

sorry, I was not trying to smear you.
You complained about the sound and the fact that you must use the google home app to use any functionality. Myself and @NTK tried to explain how you can use the amp without the Google Home app, but you just keep repeating that this is not possible. Apparently you have been misinformed by HK customer care, which would be bad service.
I am able to operate the amp from a Mac or PC for over a year, so there might be something specific to your configuration.
your respons is just repeating your claims.
my conclusion is that you are not really interested in a solution, so I will no longer respond.

I am aware of quirks and bugs of the Citation Amp as you can see in my posts.

When start you characterising someone’s factual comments with negative adjectives - that’s smearing.

I’ve provided factual comments which you are not in a position to dispute as you were not there.

Furthermore the moment you are rating yourself above HK basic and elevavated customer service as to the facts diagnosis and current status of an issue.

The issues with this device come down to poor design choices. It should have those controls on the included remote, on the front panel or at least on an on screen menu. All missing. Relying on a third party app and then not having a universally assessable url without a third party device in the set up chain…also poor design choices.

Those are the underlying facts of this device. And people buying the device should be able to know the facts without you serially disparaging anyone who documents the issues that a buyer could face.

 

[AdamG]

Gladiators please put down your cudgels and cease the aggression. Give your horses a well earned rest and please try to be more patient with each other. We are all here to learn and share our passion for enjoyment of Music. Work harder on trying to understand each other and maybe create some new friendships along the way. Making new enemies is so very easy and boring. Sometimes you have to work for it.

In case I was not clear enough in the above. Take this as a warning to stop your bickering. Please and thank you for your understanding and assistance.

 

[anderslund78]

I have a pair of B&W CM9 S2 and am considering pairing them with the HK Citation AMP. Any thoughts about this combo? Is the amp strong enough for these speakers?

 

[apharma]

It should do, it’s 200W per channel at 4ohms so even at 8ohms you’re looking at more power than you would reasonably use for anything that isn’t a very large room. Just read through this thread about it’s shortcomings, it’s very nice but was not for me personally due to the fan.

 

[anderslund78]

Thanks for feedback. I found one at Harmon Kardons outlet at a nice price which says it has been renovated. Any thought about this? Perhaps with newer chip that do not get as hot. Mine will not be used that much - perhaps 1 hour per week and stand free with good ventilation

 

[PeterOo]

Thanks for feedback. I found one at Harmon Kardons outlet at a nice price which says it has been renovated. Any thought about this? Perhaps with newer chip that do not get as hot. Mine will not be used that much - perhaps 1 hour per week and stand free with good ventilation

There have been reports of Citation Amps overheating since it was released. some failing immediately, some after a few months. Anyway, the cooling or airflow seems to be critical in this device. They still did not discontinue the product, but even made it CES product of the year in two consecutive years.
My guess (nothing more) is that is has to do with assembly, e.g. wrong application of cooling paste. These things could be fixed in a refurbished product.

Replacing a single chip is usually not doable. Getting a new module/PCB with an updated chip is only economically viable if they are already planning to release an updated batch of Amps.

Anyway, you would still have normal warranty and I hear HK customer service is fine. You might end up with a manual assembled and the best inspected Citation Amp around.
I love mine, but be warned about the fan noise, firmware bugs and minimalistic/archaic user interface.

 

[GiBo61]

I have a pair of B&W CM9 S2 and am considering pairing them with the HK Citation AMP. Any thoughts about this combo? Is the amp strong enough for these speakers?

You should probably consider also the Sabaj A30a. It has less functions than the HK Citation AMP (no wifi, no Chromecast audio) but the full-digital amplification section should be the same (based on the AXIGN AX5689 technology). You can read very positive feedbacks on this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sabaj-a30a-announced.35714/ Please consider that the Sabay A30a is an almost identical twin to the SMSL VMV A2 that has been tested by Amir (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...msl-vmv-a2-review-stereo-amplifier-dac.24640/).
Here are my first impression of this little jewel: https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sabaj-a30a-announced.35714/post-1388091

 

[apharma]

Thanks for feedback. I found one at Harmon Kardons outlet at a nice price which says it has been renovated. Any thought about this? Perhaps with newer chip that do not get as hot. Mine will not be used that much - perhaps 1 hour per week and stand free with good ventilation

I found that the fan was kicking in after 30-60 mins in a well ventilated environment on a mesh bottom stand and this was at 10% volume so not exactly pushing it. As PeterOo says, if it’s been refurbished it’s likely had someone fix and test it so you could have a properly fitted heat sink and fan and it’s under a warranty so can always give it a try. Check the returns policy though.

Personally I think they need to use a better heat sink and start sourcing their fans from noctua, preferably going up to a 120mm fan for cooling then this would imo be a great product and whisper quiet.

Edit: The A30a recommendation above, if you just need an amp for your speakers there’s a lot of choices, the reason to get a citation, Sonos etc is for the connectivity and ”smart”features. Up to the user but if you have no use of any smart features and high connectivity like that there’s likely a lot better choices than the citation.

 

[anderslund78]

Thanks. I will look into that

Regarding the HK Citation Amp. Can anyone tell me if it possible to stream fx Netflix through either Chromecast or Airplay and the connect the HDMI with my projector and then use these together? Or it is only sound it can stream?

 

[Marijnvp]

Hi, any updates on this reliability/heating issue?

I’m also considering the citation Amp. Mainly because I sold my Sonos amp because of input delay. I want to be able to hook up live instruments. Does anyone know if analog inputs have a delay ons this unit? Sonos has a minimum of 75ms delay on line-in because of streaming buffer, even when your not streaming. Same goes for bluesound…

 

[Marijnvp]

Thanks. I will look into that

Regarding the HK Citation Amp. Can anyone tell me if it possible to stream fx Netflix through either Chromecast or Airplay and the connect the HDMI with my projector and then use these together? Or it is only sound it can stream?

I don’t think you can as I think the HDMI is a hdmi-in port. But you should be able to do this using a splitter maybe.

 

[PeterOo]

Hi, any updates on this reliability/heating issue?

I’m also considering the citation Amp. Mainly because I sold my Sonos amp because of input delay. I want to be able to hook up live instruments. Does anyone know if analog inputs have a delay ons this unit? Sonos has a minimum of 75ms delay on line-in because of streaming buffer, even when your not streaming. Same goes for bluesound…

I use the analog in to connect the Sound of my TV. What I found is there is a delay in the sound which keeps increasing until you turn the amp off and on again.
I notice no delay at first, but it will steadily increase to more than 200ms after binging for 2,5 hours.
I did not try to measure the delay just after switching the amp on.

 

[PeterOo]

I don’t think you can as I think the HDMI is a hdmi-in port. But you should be able to do this using a splitter maybe.

A splitter will not work. Over HDMI the Citation Amp only uses the ARC signal from your TV. Unless you mean a ‘splitter’ that takes coax or optical from HDMI.