Power amplifier tests with respect to FTC: 16 CFR Part 432 (July 5, 2024) requirements on output power claims

[pma]

@restorer-john : Lobby groups, as always. They are everywhere. Politicians, manufacturers, OEM assemblers, news, magazines, reviewers.

 

[RickS]

Audioholics was involved in bringing awareness to the sunsetting of the amplifier regulations.

Be careful what you wish for you just might get it.(Aesop's Fables)

Now they're trying to get them to reopen the ruling to make changes.

Audioholics Petition to Reopen FTC Final Amplifier Rule of 2024​

I wonder how that's going? Comments have ended. Has enough time passed for FTC response?

Audioholics Petition to Reopen FTC Final Amplifier Rule of 2024

Our petition urges the FTC to reconsider its August 2024 Amplifier Rule, which expands power output regulations to ALL audio products. The broad, retroactive scope and blanket approach risk industry disruption.

www.audioholics.com

Agree with the AH technical aspects as they have been discussed here too. Unfortunately, was not done sooner and have low expectations for action at a time when less government regulation is on the horizon. The editorial comment from Dennis Murphy is worthy of note...

"The FTC mandate removal was done in response to pressure from the Office of Management & Budget (OMB) to reduce disclosure burdens in the media. However, this wasn't why adherence to the Rule's basic requirements deteriorated. Any power output claim that appeared in advertising had to be based on continuous power, and the power band and maximum THD still had to be disclosed in spec sheets. If companies had adhered to the revised Rule, nothing would have changed other than the relaxation of disclosure requirement in advertising. Companies still had to adhere to the specified standard operating conditions. The breakdown in Rule compliance was instead due to the lack of enforcement by the Commission and the growing market share of multi-channel amplifiers, which weren't explicitly covered by the Rule."

This confirms much of what has been discussed here as well:

1. There were already budget (and likely other) pressures to reduce disclosure.
2. The (outdated) insistence on continuous power as a requirement.
3. Lack of audio company adherence.
4. Lack of enforcement by the FTC.

Even if somehow the technical requirement was modified, the other problems remain. Want to hope some rationality might prevail but seems a doomed effort (if the other issues are not addressed as well).

 

[Sokel]

Mcintosh seems to follow the rule?
Is that how is supposed to be?

McIntosh MC462 Stereo Amplifier

Experience stereo bliss with the MC462 Amplifier. It features a robust output of 450 Watts per channel. With a dedicated McIntosh Autoformer™ connected to each audio channel, the full 450 Watts is available to any speaker regardless if it has 2, 4 or 8 Ohm impedance. Just one MC462 Amplifier can...

www.mcintoshlabs.com

 

[Old_School_Brad]

Mcintosh seems to follow the rule?
Is that how is supposed to be?

View attachment 413613

McIntosh MC462 Stereo Amplifier

Experience stereo bliss with the MC462 Amplifier. It features a robust output of 450 Watts per channel. With a dedicated McIntosh Autoformer™ connected to each audio channel, the full 450 Watts is available to any speaker regardless if it has 2, 4 or 8 Ohm impedance. Just one MC462 Amplifier can...

www.mcintoshlabs.com

Looks OK.

 

[SIY]

Mcintosh seems to follow the rule?
Is that how is supposed to be?

View attachment 413613

McIntosh MC462 Stereo Amplifier

Experience stereo bliss with the MC462 Amplifier. It features a robust output of 450 Watts per channel. With a dedicated McIntosh Autoformer™ connected to each audio channel, the full 450 Watts is available to any speaker regardless if it has 2, 4 or 8 Ohm impedance. Just one MC462 Amplifier can...

www.mcintoshlabs.com

Well, if you don't mind spending $9000 and having a 55kg monster in the room which functionally for the intended use will do nothing that a unit with 10% of the weight and cost can't do... fine.

I mean, sure, I'd love to have one, but not because it will do anything my current amps won't, but because of the audio jewelry factor.

 

[restorer-john]

Looks OK.

McIntosh have been specifying their gear in accordance with the Amplifier Rule since 1974. They have never wavered AFAIK. Conservative specs too.

 

[JustJones]

must adhere to FTC guidelines

You're in Australia so adherence to these types of regulations might be common practice I have no idea. I'm in the United States and this is the more likely outcome of the new regulations.

1. Lack of audio company adherence.
2. Lack of enforcement by the FTC.

“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”

 

[restorer-john]

Well, if you don't mind spending $9000 and having a 55kg monster in the room which functionally for the intended use will do nothing that a unit with 10% of the weight and cost can't do... fine.

I mean, sure, I'd love to have one, but not because it will do anything my current amps won't, but because of the audio jewelry factor.

See, this is another benefit of old-skool amps. Burglars can't easily steal them. They need a forklift and a small truck to rob your house.

 

[Sokel]

Well, if you don't mind spending $9000 and having a 55kg monster in the room which functionally for the intended use will do nothing that a unit with 10% of the weight and cost can't do... fine.

I mean, sure, I'd love to have one, but not because it will do anything my current amps won't, but because of the audio jewelry factor.

No,I don't mind at all!

It just isn't my taste,I prefer black stuff.

They also state dynamic headroom,3dB,so double the whole stuff when needed.Not bad at all!

 

[SIY]

No,I don't mind at all!

My inclination would be to spend $8000 less and use the rest for coke and hookers.

 

[restorer-john]

You're in Australia so adherence to these types of regulations might be common practice I have no idea. I'm in the United States and this is the more likely outcome of the new regulations.

1. Lack of audio company adherence.
2. Lack of enforcement by the FTC.

“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”

I don't know. Maybe you guys are just jaded, beaten down and have no faith over there.

We have the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission). Much like the FTC, except they really get their teeth into corporate deception and criminal behaviour. Yes, it takes a while and lots of complaints, but when they do, the fines are pretty significant.

Home | ACCC

The ACCC is Australia's competition regulator and national consumer law champion. We promote competition and fair trading and regulate national infrastructure to make markets work for everyone.

www.accc.gov.au

Extended warranties: https://www.9news.com.au/national/h...rranties/e796af9a-47ef-45b2-8fea-482084b1586e

In store cash scams: https://www.hrleader.com.au/busines...leading-store-credit-and-storecash-promotions

Before going to the ACCC, you have small claims court, local and state governing bodies to help.

 

[JeremyFife]

My inclination would be to spend $8000 less and use the rest for coke and hookers.

That's a lot of fizzy pop!

 

[SIY]

That's a lot of fizzy pop!

I was tempted, but resisted, to post a gif from the "I'd Like To Buy The World A Coke" scene in Deep Throat.

You're welcome.

 

[JustJones]

I don't know. Maybe you guys are just jaded, beaten down and have no faith over there.

We have the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission). Much like the FTC, except they really get their teeth into corporate deception and criminal behaviour. Yes, it takes a while and lots of complaints, but when they do, the fines are pretty significant.

Home | ACCC

The ACCC is Australia's competition regulator and national consumer law champion. We promote competition and fair trading and regulate national infrastructure to make markets work for everyone.

www.accc.gov.au

Extended warranties: https://www.9news.com.au/national/h...rranties/e796af9a-47ef-45b2-8fea-482084b1586e

In store cash scams: https://www.hrleader.com.au/busines...leading-store-credit-and-storecash-promotions

Before going to the ACCC, you have small claims court, local and state governing bodies to help.

Not how it would work in the US. It would take years and after numerous rulings and appeals it would most likely(I don't have a crystal ball) end up in civil court as a lawsuit where a jury would decide if these amplifiers playing 5 minute sine waves are how consumers use them. I doubt it would get there as the FTC would most likely (crystal ball again) either drop it or change the regulations. This isn't high on the FTC list of priorities. Not to get political but with a changing administration it's probably going to be even lower especially if we think back to when the sunsetting of this began?

 

[restorer-john]

Not how it would work in the US. It would take years and after numerous rulings and appeals

You guys would know how it ultimately plays out I guess. All I know is things were different the first time around, and manufacturers actually played ball. It made for better products and the proof is in the longevity of that gear that is still around, revered and highly valuable. I hold out hope for a return to those values. Maybe not today or next year, but eventually.

Made in the USA, made in England, made in (West- remember that?) Germany and Made in Japan meant something.

I still pick up Japanese knives and cutlery at my op-shops for a few cents. The stainless is incredibly high grade. English and US made tool steel products are the best in the world, no matter how old they are. I'll pick up a rusty Stanley Tools Australian made screwdriver just because I know you can use it as a chisel on cement, a tent peg or a punch, as well as a flat head screwdriver. If you haven't pulled over to pick up a spanner, screwdriver or wrench you've spotted on the road, there's something wrong with you.

 

[pma]

Regarding me, I am done here with any recommendations on amplifier testing. ASR has its own set of tests, regardless valid standards, and has its own fan zone, like many social nets do. Be happy, guys.

 

[olieb]

See, this is another benefit of old-skool amps. Burglars can't easily steal them. They need a forklift and a small truck to rob your house.

In my point of view, you have already been robbed the moment you leave the store, no burglars needed. And you even paid for the forklift.

 

[Jim Taylor]

It made for better products and the proof is in the longevity of that gear that is still around, revered and highly valuable.

I wonder whether new businesses deliberately aim for lower longevity, to foster repeat manufacturing. To them, longevity might seem threatening and restrictive.

I hold out hope for a return to those values. Maybe not today or next year, but eventually.

Those values are still around. It's just that they were formerly in the majority, and now they're in the minority. The difference is, as you well know, quite glaring.

Regarding me, I am done here with any recommendations on amplifier testing. ASR has its own set of tests, regardless valid standards, and has its own fan zone, like many social nets do. Be happy, guys.

Oh, quit being so grumpy! You're a valuable member around here, and if you stomped off in disgust, the place really wouldn't be the same. You can't expect everyone in the world to agree with you. The human race isn't built that way.

Take a breather, have a whiskey, and come back after a nap.

 

[tmtomh]

Regarding me, I am done here with any recommendations on amplifier testing. ASR has its own set of tests, regardless valid standards, and has its own fan zone, like many social nets do. Be happy, guys.

It must be difficult being The Last Reasonable Man in this depraved community of fanboy sheep.

 

[restorer-john]

Pavel is a purist and there is a bit of a language barrier going on. His passion is amplification, and to his credit, he has taken on and tested a whole bunch more of the stuff I simply cannot be bothered with. Deliberately deceptive amplification should be called out. Every, single time.

But none of this is going to save the world. It's fringe stuff for esoteric people like us.

I have an SX-1980 here, crated up and sent to me from 1500km+ away. Pioneer's TOTL, 1978, 270 watts per channel receiver. Go look up what that is worth and weep. It needs my attention to keep it happily going for another 46+ years...

edit: here's one, at a good price. https://www.ebay.com/itm/387709443612