Pioneer VSX-LX505 (with Dirac) Unboxing and Overview

[AudioScience Enthusiast]

I do not know How Roon talks (If) with this app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pioneer.playfi. my receiver is older, but yours support hi res áudio via this app

Play-Fi doesn't want to support Roon so I can't use this method to get 192/24.

Roon also doesn't do UPnP so I can't use the AVR's "Music Server DLNA" function to get 192/24.

AirPlay on LX505 works for getting Roon but it's limited to 44.1/16 which sounds really "horrible."

The only options left to get Roon onto LX505 at highest quality is:

1. Dedicated Windows PC/Mac mini -- too expensive, no MQA second unfoldnig
2. RiP endpoint for Roon + DAC -- some tinkering is involved
3. WiiM endoint for Roon + DAC -- works out of the box and feature but it doesn't support DSD like RiP does.

So as LX505 owner who wants to get Roon, I think it's a battle between method 2 and 3 above. Did I miss something? Are there alternatives?

 

[ban25]

Play-Fi doesn't want to support Roon so I can't use this method to get 192/24.

Roon also doesn't do UPnP so I can't use the AVR's "Music Server DLNA" function to get 192/24.

AirPlay on LX505 works for getting Roon but it's limited to 44.1/16 which sounds really "horrible."

The only options left to get Roon onto LX505 at highest quality is:

1. Dedicated Windows PC/Mac mini -- too expensive, no MQA second unfoldnig
2. RiP endpoint for Roon + DAC -- some tinkering is involved
3. WiiM endoint for Roon + DAC -- works out of the box and feature but it doesn't support DSD like RiP does.

So as LX505 owner who wants to get Roon, I think it's a battle between method 2 and 3 above. Did I miss something? Are there alternatives?

I use a Bluesound NODE (https://www.bluesound.com/products/node/) to stream my collection of 24/192 FLAC as well as some DSD to my home theater via coax SPDIF. The NODE is Roon Ready so integration is seamless, though it's obviously pricier than something like the WiiM.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Play-Fi doesn't want to support Roon so I can't use this method to get 192/24.

Roon also doesn't do UPnP so I can't use the AVR's "Music Server DLNA" function to get 192/24.

AirPlay on LX505 works for getting Roon but it's limited to 44.1/16 which sounds really "horrible."

The only options left to get Roon onto LX505 at highest quality is:

1. Dedicated Windows PC/Mac mini -- too expensive, no MQA second unfoldnig
2. RiP endpoint for Roon + DAC -- some tinkering is involved
3. WiiM endoint for Roon + DAC -- works out of the box and feature but it doesn't support DSD like RiP does.

So as LX505 owner who wants to get Roon, I think it's a battle between method 2 and 3 above. Did I miss something? Are there alternatives?

Well, the "source" of your limitations, let´s say, is Roon. My suggestion is: 1 - for US$ 5.99 you can buy a lifetime license of mconnect (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.conversdigitalpaid&hl=pt_BR&gl=US) and check if you are satisfied with this app, sending musics from your local music server or your cloud music service (Tidal, Spotify...) via your smartphone to the Pioneer, via you local network. I have it and, for me, it works very very well. Flawless. In addition to the low cost, mconnect avoids hanging more stuff on your set and spending more money doing it. Pioneer takes care of everything. After that test, you can evaluate if to have Roon is that important for you. Chromecast and Airplay are not good options for music.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Play-Fi doesn't want to support Roon so I can't use this method to get 192/24.

Roon also doesn't do UPnP so I can't use the AVR's "Music Server DLNA" function to get 192/24.

AirPlay on LX505 works for getting Roon but it's limited to 44.1/16 which sounds really "horrible."

The only options left to get Roon onto LX505 at highest quality is:

1. Dedicated Windows PC/Mac mini -- too expensive, no MQA second unfoldnig
2. RiP endpoint for Roon + DAC -- some tinkering is involved
3. WiiM endoint for Roon + DAC -- works out of the box and feature but it doesn't support DSD like RiP does.

So as LX505 owner who wants to get Roon, I think it's a battle between method 2 and 3 above. Did I miss something? Are there alternatives?

Play-Fi doesn't want to support Roon so I can't use this method to get 192/24.

Roon also doesn't do UPnP so I can't use the AVR's "Music Server DLNA" function to get 192/24.

AirPlay on LX505 works for getting Roon but it's limited to 44.1/16 which sounds really "horrible."

The only options left to get Roon onto LX505 at highest quality is:

1. Dedicated Windows PC/Mac mini -- too expensive, no MQA second unfoldnig
2. RiP endpoint for Roon + DAC -- some tinkering is involved
3. WiiM endoint for Roon + DAC -- works out of the box and feature but it doesn't support DSD like RiP does.

So as LX505 owner who wants to get Roon, I think it's a battle between method 2 and 3 above. Did I miss something? Are there alternatives?

In time: I do not have musics stored on NAS or other device in my network. All come from Tidal. Once the Pioneer does not support MQA and does not "unfold", via mconnect the musics will be limited up to 48kHz/24bit. But do not worry, because there is no relevant (or any) diference in terms of audio quality, in my tests, to MQA 192/24, for example. If you have hi res musics stored on a computer or hard disk (NAS) on your network, mconnect will play them up to the limits of the Pioneer (Up to 192 kHz/24bit and 11.2 MHz DSD). In my tests, musics in "heavy" DSD like 11.2MHz, due its size, may not work well via network. DSD up to 5.6MHz works just fine here.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

And finally, I decided to push the limits buying an Audirvana license, due its promisses to increase audio quality etc etc. Still evaluating it. One of its features is to allow upsampling to DSD (se the attached image). I do not have conditions to hear a clear advantage by now. I bought for US$ 150.00 a 2012 Mac Mini, the DAC Topping E50 for around US 200.00 on Black Friday, a US$ 200.00 Wireworld Equinox 8 RCA interconnect cable and an Oyaide USB cable. Plus Audirvana, an investiment of almos US$ 700.00 that is now on my set B, because, as I realized, the Pioneer does almost the same with mconnect, even not unfolding MQA files.

 

[AudioScience Enthusiast]

I use a Bluesound NODE (https://www.bluesound.com/products/node/) to stream my collection of 24/192 FLAC as well as some DSD to my home theater via coax SPDIF. The NODE is Roon Ready so integration is seamless, though it's obviously pricier than something like the WiiM.

Aside from the price, I also found its DSD implementation unacceptable. ie. converting all DSD files into PCM.

As such, I much prefer the WiiM Pro (Roon support to be released soon) and an additional DAC. The only downside is having to switch between WiiM Pro and RiP4 on the DAC, but even buying both Wiim Pro and RiP4, it's still half of the price of one Node, so the value here is a big factor into this consideration.

 

[ban25]

Aside from the price, I also found its DSD implementation unacceptable. ie. converting all DSD files into PCM.

As such, I much prefer the WiiM Pro (Roon support to be released soon) and an additional DAC. The only downside is having to switch between WiiM Pro and RiP4 on the DAC, but even buying both Wiim Pro and RiP4, it's still half of the price of one Node, so the value here is a big factor into this consideration.

RPi4 is probably substantially harder to come by than last time you bothered to look.

DSD to analog...has to get there somehow.

Roon Ready when?

 

[AudioScience Enthusiast]

Roon Ready when?

Jan 15th according to Wiim team. I can't wait to get Roon directly into my LX505 at 192/24!

I will also test if a DAC in between makes it better.

 

[AudioScience Enthusiast]

While waiting for WiiM Pro to get "Roon Ready" status and RiP to be in stock (so I can use it as Roon endpoint), I still have no way to know what's the best way to feed into LX505.

In the meantime, as a theoretical exercise, which of the following do you all think will get the best sound quality out of LX505, assuming DSP is turned off (ie. Pure Audio / Direct) on LX505?

1. RiP4 USB -> SMSL DO200 DAC -> Analog IN (RCA) on LX505

2. WiiM Pro -> Digital IN (Optical/Coax) on LX505

3. Wiim Pro -> SMSL DO200 DAC -> Analog IN (RCA) on LX505


I think the answer to what's best may depend on several variable:

a) If best source (eg. DSD on RiP4) = best output, then option 1
b) If Digital IN results in better output compared to Analog IN, then option 2
c) For bit-perfect Amazon UHD Music (up to 192/24) that is only available on Wiim Pro, either 2 or 3 would get the best quality
d) For high sample rate streaming sources > 192/24, (eg. Tidal's MQA), then maybe option 1 or 3 are both good? Because the source will be fully decoded by a competent DAC.

Is there a way to know without having all 3 devices to compare?

I was hoping to cut out one or more pieces of equipment from the above list, but it doesn't seem possible.

 

[AudioScience Enthusiast]

One of the really cool features of the 305, & 505 is the web user interface. In to Pioneer user manual it says to use admin, and the default password. Use cisuer, ciuser instead. It pretty much gives you control of every setting there. Makes it really easy to change things around. Rename inputs using your laptop keyboard, Choose which inputs to skip, you can see the temps, video it is recieving, and outputting. It also has a function to test HDMI cables.

Hmm, I have the LX505, and I couldn't login with cisuer as username and password.

The username and password "admin" do work, but I only see "device information" and "network settings" after logging in. I don't see anything related to advanced settings. Did I miss something?

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Hmm, I have the LX505, and I couldn't login with cisuer as username and password.

The username and password "admin" do work, but I only see "device information" and "network settings" after logging in. I don't see anything related to advanced settings. Did I miss something?

Diferent from Yamaha AV Receivers, that have a browser to command the unit on a PC, my Pioneer VSX LX503 does not have this, but only two screens with network informations. Sometimes, the receiver is not present in my network. So I need to turn on/off HDCP and it appears.

 

[damirj79]

Hmm, I have the LX505, and I couldn't login with cisuer as username and password.

The username and password "admin" do work, but I only see "device information" and "network settings" after logging in. I don't see anything related to advanced settings. Did I miss something?

It does not work because you have typo in username and password. Correct is ciuser/ciuser

 

[MbphotoX]

chiming in here since I consider replacing my SC-LX57 with the VSX-LX505.

Is it possible to do the AVR's DIRAC calibration using my UMIK-1?



Also, on a different note: can that 5V USB output at the back be used to power a USB fan for cooling?

 

[damirj79]

You get a mic in the box, which is used to do calibration.

You can connect fan to usb, then you configure in settings to turn on usb when avr is turned on.

 

[MbphotoX]

You get a mic in the box, which is used to do calibration.

You can connect fan to usb, then you configure in settings to turn on usb when avr is turned on.

but I would like to use a proper microphone for calibration. That's why I'm asking.

I have seen plenty of people mention doing dirac calibration with an UMIK-1, but haven't found any info as to how this works with the Pioneer.

Since I have an UMIK-1 already, I'd love to be able to use that, too.

 

[Johnp]

chiming in here since I consider replacing my SC-LX57 with the VSX-LX505.

Is it possible to do the AVR's DIRAC calibration using my UMIK-1?

Yes, with a computer. There is a bug with level on the volume setting screen with the sub being way too quiet, but it works fine once you get the sub level right

 

[damirj79]

but I would like to use a proper microphone for calibration. That's why I'm asking.

I have seen plenty of people mention doing dirac calibration with an UMIK-1, but haven't found any info as to how this works with the Pioneer.

Since I have an UMIK-1 already, I'd love to be able to use that, too.

If you use Dirac live app on PC then yes, you can use it.

 

[Theriverlethe]

Dirac Live does auto-set speaker distances... worth noting that it sets the acoustical distances as the physical distances are usually incorrect with modern subwoofers as they often have DSPs that introduce a time delay

Measuring physical distance is impossible with a microphone. It has to be the arrival time of a sound wave, which in a small room has very little do with the physical location of the subwoofer in the first place. Somehow these systems still manage to get it wrong at the crossover region, so perhaps they aren't measuring the *right* wave.

I found that Dirac incorrectly set my LCR as "large" and then failed to have the subwoofer delays set correctly for those speakers, such that there was significant crossover cancellation when I set the LCR to "large." I forget if the Pioneer unit allows manual adjustment of subwoofer delay with Dirac enabled since I returned it for a Yamaha.

 

[ban25]

but I would like to use a proper microphone for calibration. That's why I'm asking.

I have seen plenty of people mention doing dirac calibration with an UMIK-1, but haven't found any info as to how this works with the Pioneer.

Since I have an UMIK-1 already, I'd love to be able to use that, too.

Yes, just download Dirac Live on your PC/Mac from dirac.com and connect your UMIK-1 to the computer. When you launch the Dirac application, it will find your AVR on the network and allow you to proceed with the caliibration.

 

[MbphotoX]

Measuring physical distance is impossible with a microphone. It has to be the arrival time of a sound wave, which in a small room has very little do with the physical location of the subwoofer in the first place. Somehow these systems still manage to get it wrong at the crossover region, so perhaps they aren't measuring the *right* wave.

I found that Dirac incorrectly set my LCR as "large" and then failed to have the subwoofer delays set correctly for those speakers, such that there was significant crossover cancellation when I set the LCR to "large." I forget if the Pioneer unit allows manual adjustment of subwoofer delay with Dirac enabled since I returned it for a Yamaha.

can't you just change the phase of the subwoofer?

to avoid cancellation, I mean.

otherwise, proper placement would help for sure.