[Pictures Inside] Dirac Correction 0-300Hz Vs Full Range Correction

[SadMonster]

Dirac Correcting Up To 300HZ:

Dirac Full Range Correction:

Which would you pick?

I'm aware of the experiments done by Dr. Toole that suggest that a good speaker is a good speaker regardless of the room that it's in with questionable benefits to be gained above processing above 300-400hz.

He says that the JBL M2 doesn't need any processing above the 300-400hz range. On another comment he says that the JBL 7 series, which is what I have, are basically as good as the M2 and difficult to pick apart from each other short of volume potential.

Following this logic I should go for the top target curve where only the low end is corrected but still I'd like to hear what you all think...

It's kind of hard to A/B them because Dirac has a 5 second delay between switching the corrections but my impression is:

- The 0-300hz correction feels more natural and easier to listen to but less detailed. This correction basically lets the JBL 7 series sound like the 7 series except with controlled and even bass.

- The full range correction sounds clearer but it's so clear it sometimes dips into shrill territory and there is definitely a noticeable tone change to the speakers that make me worry that even though the system measures better to a dumb microphone it will sound worse than the "uncorrected" top version which our powerful brains can correct on their own as suggested by Dr Toole.

The one thing I will say for anyone who is considering Dirac is that there is no question that the bass is improved on my system. Bass notes that are way too loud are brought down into line and bass notes that almost felt absent before are suddenly right up there with the rest of them. If I had to describe it simply I would use the words: even and balanced.

I'm honestly not sure which I prefer from the two curves...which of these 2 would you pick?

Edit: This is subject to change still, but been listening to the above curves, and I’m preferring flat target full range correction on these speakers in this room by a pretty good amount right now…

 

[aedagnino]

First of all you should try correcting full range with a filter curve that follows the natural roll-off of the high frequencies. Right now your full range correction seems to be a flat curve, which should sound shrill and definitely change the tone of the speakers. Then, compare again between 0-300hz vs full range correction (with filter curve following natural roll off).

 

[aedagnino]

Question: did you try using the default dirac filter? It should roughly follow harman curve settings.

 

[SadMonster]

Question: ¿did you try using the default dirac filter? It should roughly follow harman curve settings.

Hmmmm yeah I’ve tried it but it’s so hard for me to pick out which is best between the endless curve options. But I guess that is a potential 3rd poll option… O_O

My impressions so far is that totally flat sounds occasionally shrill but corrected to 300hz lacks slightly in clarity…no strong preference either way…

 

[alont]

Definitely avoid correcting above the transition frequency. Correcting above the transition frequency should be done carefully using a separate PEQ and based on the speaker's spinorama instead of in-room measurements.

You can get a sense of what your room's transition frequency is by looking at the uncorrected in-room measurements.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Dead flat never never sounds good. This curve would sound thin and lacking in bass in my room.
Unless you’d speakers have a flaw in the treble correction above 1khz is not necessarily a good thing, especially single point measurement and corrections can be bad
Amazingly flat bass? Are you using only speakers or multiple subs?

 

[SadMonster]

Definitely avoid correcting above the transition frequency. Correcting above the transition frequency should be done carefully using a separate PEQ and based on the speaker's instead of in-room measurements.

You can get a sense of what your room's transition frequency is by looking at the uncorrected in-room measurements.

I don't know what this means but I will take your word for it

Dead flat never never sounds good. This curve would sound thin and lacking in bass in my room.
Unless you’d speakers have a flaw in the treble correction above 1khz is not necessarily a good thing

Hmmmm it doesn't sound too bad here...very clear but perhaps a tad shrill and lack bass life/energy.

 

[alont]

Dead flat never never sounds good. This curve would sound thin and lacking in bass in my room.
Unless you’d speakers have a flaw in the treble correction above 1khz is not necessarily a good thing

This depends on how loud you listen to the music, compared to how loud it's "supposed" to sound. I think that ideally you'd want one of the following:
1. Use a relatively flat target curve + bass tone controls. Toole is a big proponent of tone controls.
2. Create multiple Dirac corrections, each with its own phon-delta-compensated curve .

 

[abdo123]

Why the fuck are you not using the default Dirac target curve?

 

[SadMonster]

Why the fuck are not using the default Dirac target curve?

Eh...I don't know...is it any good? Dr. Toole says EQ may not be desirable when speakers already largely flat and when I compare it to completely flat target it sounds less crispy and sparkly

 

[abdo123]

Definitely avoid correcting above the transition frequency. Correcting above the transition frequency should be done carefully using a separate PEQ and based on the speaker's spinorama instead of in-room measurements.
.

You can definitely EQ above the transition frequency.

for example my living room is reflective as fuck and my response is dead flat from 1K to 20Khz, i use Dirac to add a high frequency roll-off.

 

[abdo123]

Eh...I don't know...is it any good? Dr. Toole says EQ may not be desirable when speakers already largely flat and when I compare it to completely flat target it sounds less crispy and sparkly

it’s not supposed to sound crispy and sparkly it’s supposed to sound neutral.

 

[SadMonster]

it’s not supposed to sound crispy and sparkly it’s supposed to sound neutral.

But what if the source content was meant to be crispy and sparkly

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Eh...I don't know...is it any good? Dr. Toole says EQ may not be desirable when speakers already largely flat and when I compare it to completely flat target it sounds less crispy and sparkly

Yes but, by your own measurement, your speaker is definitely not flat above 300Hz and slopes off above 1kHz. Use the DL default curve or the Harman default curve and then reconsider.

 

[abdo123]

But what if the source content was meant to be crispy and sparkly

there is a difference between one source content being crispy and sparkly and ALL source content sounding crispy and sparkly.

If you’re using bookshelf speakers use the default target curve, if you have subwoofers or large speakers with beefy amplification then use the harman target curve.

Either way, don’t forget to calculate the necessary negative gain so you don’t have clipping because of the boost Dirac applies.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

But what if the source content was meant to be crispy and sparkly

But what if if wasn't? How do you know?

 

[SadMonster]

Yes but, by your own measurement, your speaker is definitely not flat above 300Hz and slopes off above 1kHz. Use the DL default curve or the Harman default curve and then reconsider.

But aren't the speakers super flat and the rest is just room interaction that my brain processes somewhat separately from the direct sound without significant decreases in preference ratings?

 

[daftcombo]

Try the second correction, it will just sound like sh*t.
Like bad tiny laptop speakers.

That's what I got when I first messed with REW/Rephase without knowing what I was doing except that I wanted "flat in-room" curve.

 

[SadMonster]

Try the second correction, it will just sound like sh*t.
Like bad tiny laptop speakers.

That's what I got when I first messed with REW/Rephase without knowing what I was doing except that I wanted "flat in-room" curve.

I think it sounds pretty good! Sparkly and crispy! But perhaps a little too crispy...

 

[abdo123]

But aren't the speakers super flat and the rest is just room interaction that my brain processes somewhat separately from the direct sound without significant decreases in preference ratings?

your speakers aren’t anechoicly flat anymore when you use DSP.

So the logical decision is to aim for the performance of a flat speaker in a good room. (Not flat).