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Perlisten Owners' Lounge - Discuss all things Perlisten.

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CleanSound

CleanSound

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I'll kick it off. I have the S7t, what I noticed is that if I don't toe them in, the bass is very sloppy/muddy and boomy. Once I toe them in, it's a world of a difference, that's when I get the Perlisten experience. I need to toe them in where the tweeters hits my shoulder when in listening position to get that optimal sound.

This issue occurs in two very different rooms, which leaves me thinking it's less likely room mode.
  1. What do you think is the cause of it?
  2. Is there any negative effect on sound staging (or others) for the speakers to be toe in to the point I have it?
  3. Anyone knows what Perlisten's recommendations are for speaker placement?

Anthony Grimani a acoustics expert has a audioholics youtube video you can watch.
very informantive. A simple answer might be 4-6” of bass trap foam behind your speakers. You could also try moving the speakers closer (like rt next to) the wall or further into the room.

@MAB

So, I watched this entire series. I made some adjustment based on the general guidelines. I did inadvertently did some positional EQ while making these adjustments. I also pulled out my speakers by another 5 inches or so and toe them in by few more degrees (helped with imaging not so much bass). It made a big enough of a difference in the bass, where I am much much more satisfied.

The next thing I am going to do is get 6 inch bass trap panels and finish staining my 2D diffusers and hang them up. Concurrently, I will be using REW to measure the room with each room treatment adjustments. I am trying to avoid EQing, because I have to do it in the software and I use multiple software so it's a pain in the butt.
 

Descartes

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I had the S7C for two years. I never noticed this phenomena. I aways crossed mine to subs though. I just upgraded to the Limited Edition and these to me are more spacious and room filling than my SEs.
Pictures please!
 

Golfx

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ruzun

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I have an almost full Perlisten home theater now. I upgraded my circa 2005 Revel speakers with all new S series speakers last year and the difference was astounding. I now have to do the same for my subs. My room is 24'x16'x8'. I have 2 x S7t fronts, 1 x S7c center, 4 x S4s surrounds, and 4 x S3ic ceiling speakers. I am currently using 2 x Monoprice V12 THX Ultra subs. I am very tempted to get a pair of Perlisten D212s Subs but the cost is so high. The other alternative is a pair of JTR Captivator RS1's. If you DO NOT CONSIDER THE COST, would it be better in your opinion to have the pair of D212s or the pair of JTR Captivators? I want to know if money were no object, would the D212s really be better.
 

aoaaron

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I have an almost full Perlisten home theater now. I upgraded my circa 2005 Revel speakers with all new S series speakers last year and the difference was astounding. I now have to do the same for my subs. My room is 24'x16'x8'. I have 2 x S7t fronts, 1 x S7c center, 4 x S4s surrounds, and 4 x S3ic ceiling speakers. I am currently using 2 x Monoprice V12 THX Ultra subs. I am very tempted to get a pair of Perlisten D212s Subs but the cost is so high. The other alternative is a pair of JTR Captivator RS1's. If you DO NOT CONSIDER THE COST, would it be better in your opinion to have the pair of D212s or the pair of JTR Captivators? I want to know if money were no object, would the D212s really be better.


Similar to me. Really similar. I have 2x S5M, 1xS7C and 4x S4S (ebony). I have 2x Monolith 15V2s in my room for bass.

I have had a demo of a D215S this week and it is incredible. The V2 sounds sloppy - almost too tactile and playing with the room. The D215S is gentle, delicate, pressurising - in many respects phenomenal. I did look at the RS1s but they're very ugly and importing them for me is expensive as I'm in the UK. Other options are Harbottle (with 4-6 month lead time), which are probably more expensive than the Perlisten kit after some discount and DIY.

DIY is a strong option - you can get some HT-24/HS-24 drivers and put them in a cabinet. They'd out-perform the JTR RS1 comfortably. The Harbottle has god-tier engineered drivers and cabinet construction so I imagine the DIY equivalents won't match them. The D215S does some DSP magic with sound but output wise for infra-sonic level, it won't match a DIY 24'' driver. Compression, the DIY will win too. THD, that DSP might work some magic to lower it.

I wish I had a sealed subwoofer and a DIY sealed subwoofer to A/B compare with the Perl.
 

aoaaron

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I have an almost full Perlisten home theater now. I upgraded my circa 2005 Revel speakers with all new S series speakers last year and the difference was astounding. I now have to do the same for my subs. My room is 24'x16'x8'. I have 2 x S7t fronts, 1 x S7c center, 4 x S4s surrounds, and 4 x S3ic ceiling speakers. I am currently using 2 x Monoprice V12 THX Ultra subs. I am very tempted to get a pair of Perlisten D212s Subs but the cost is so high. The other alternative is a pair of JTR Captivator RS1's. If you DO NOT CONSIDER THE COST, would it be better in your opinion to have the pair of D212s or the pair of JTR Captivators? I want to know if money were no object, would the D212s really be better.


I mis-read your message. For output:
1x D215s = 2x D212S
1x D215S = 1x RS1
4x D212S = 2x RS2

So you'll need four D212s to match two RS2s, especially in lower frequency extension. I've attached my FR for my demo D215S. Its going back Tuesday for now. I'll need 4 of them to hit reference at 10hz (115db peak). That's quite expensive. I imagine the Perl might sound nicer. It certainly pairs really well with the S series speaker for whatever reason.

Your room is around the same size as mine so my graphs will probably apply to your room decently enough.
 

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ruzun

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So you would recommend 2xRS1. I am not considering the RS2. The D215s is too deep, it would impede getting around in the room the way its laid out. I really need to go with something smaller, either 2 x rs1 or 2 x d212s. Sounds like you are not high on the d212s overall since it doesn't provide enough output.

I am not considering the RS2's
 

aoaaron

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So you would recommend 2xRS1. I am not considering the RS2. The D215s is too deep, it would impede getting around in the room the way its laid out. I really need to go with something smaller, either 2 x rs1 or 2 x d212s. Sounds like you are not high on the d212s overall since it doesn't provide enough output.

I am not considering the RS2's

What country are you based?
The RS1 would be the better choice but there is a new brand (well branch of a very established brand) which is likely releasing models very soon at this price range and fidelity which would be superior to JTR by a very decent margin. They go about things similarly to JTR, just better. If budget is not a limitation but instead its floor space, weight, small dimensions, high output, no compression - then there is a solution better than JTR. And the finish is much nicer.
 

aoaaron

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I am based in the USA

Then check out Harbottle too. They're a very viable alternative. They'll likely match the output of a JTR whilst having the nuance and control of a Perlisten.
Cody there has a solution for most spaces. Ask him for a lightweight, high output, low distortion subwoofer which betters a JTR RS1 in output with a superior finish to an RS1. He'll likely have an answer and probably multiple of them.

If price is an issue, then maybe re-consider JTR.
 

ruzun

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I neglected to mention I have an Anthem AVM70 8K AV/Processor which uses ARC Genesis room correction. I don't think ARC Genesis corrects below about 15hz and I saw a report from one user with the JTR and ARC Genesis that said that Anthem didn't work well with that combo due to the sub 15hz output. I need to look into it more, I don't want to change AV Processors to and maybe the Perlistens will wind up being better in my case unless I want to get a different room correction solution.
 

ruzun

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I think I am going to go with a pair of JTR RS1's unless I can get a very good price on the Perlisten D215s. Offerings from companies like JTR and Harbottle make it difficult to buy some of the more expensive subs out there if performance is your only concern.
 

aoaaron

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I think I am going to go with a pair of JTR RS1's unless I can get a very good price on the Perlisten D215s. Offerings from companies like JTR and Harbottle make it difficult to buy some of the more expensive subs out there if performance is your only concern.

Harbottle is way better than JTR. RS1=D215S.
 

ruzun

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There isn't a lot of info from any 3rd party sources regarding Harbottle. And the cost is way more than the cost of the JTR's. At about $6500 per sub I want to be more comfortable with the company and see more info from 3rd party sources about the quality. I think the Perlisten D215s is overpriced but clearly its a strong performer, better than the RS1 but at a huge cost increase. I don't have much confidence in the D212s from Perlisten anymore compared to the JTR. I suspect the Harbottle subs are better than both perlisten and JTR, but I see a lot of backup 3rd party reviews I trust telling me the JTR's are extremely high performers. And a lot of good reviews I trust saying the D215s is a solid but expensive performer. To spend $6k to $7k on harbottle when I can't really find any info I can trust with specifics about their performance is a hard ask. I think I would rather pay the extra and get the D215s or save money and get the RS1's. one thing I no longer want to do is pay extra and get the D212s's which will likely be a worse choice, even if you don't factor in the cost, than the RS1's
 

aoaaron

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There isn't a lot of info from any 3rd party sources regarding Harbottle. And the cost is way more than the cost of the JTR's. At about $6500 per sub I want to be more comfortable with the company and see more info from 3rd party sources about the quality. I think the Perlisten D215s is overpriced but clearly its a strong performer, better than the RS1 but at a huge cost increase. I don't have much confidence in the D212s from Perlisten anymore compared to the JTR. I suspect the Harbottle subs are better than both perlisten and JTR, but I see a lot of backup 3rd party reviews I trust telling me the JTR's are extremely high performers. And a lot of good reviews I trust saying the D215s is a solid but expensive performer. To spend $6k to $7k on harbottle when I can't really find any info I can trust with specifics about their performance is a hard ask. I think I would rather pay the extra and get the D215s or save money and get the RS1's. one thing I no longer want to do is pay extra and get the D212s's which will likely be a worse choice, even if you don't factor in the cost, than the RS1's


Its your choice but I wouldn't touch JTR over Harbottle. I've seen JTR's with humming amps, amp failures, variances between units and the fit/finish is not great.

The Harbottle is all made in-house with a custom, absolutely unique long throw driver which is respected even by the AVS DIY community as god-tier. It also undergoes 500 quality checks and comes with some many performance a guarantees. I'd find it so strange to have some of the most exotic looking speakers in the world re: Perlistens next to a JTR subwoofer. The Harbottle specifications are on the site. There are some reviews on Youtube. I'm personally looking at their teased 218S subwoofer which they advertised as a prototype on Facebook. It hits 100db at 2m ground plane and 130db peaks BEFORE room gain. That'd take 8 JTR RS1s to match or probably 3-4 RS2s.

Their DSP is also FAR more advanced than JTRS so you can essentially extract the maximum level of performance from the sub like you could a DIY one.

Type in 'Harbottle C415' to see their newest sub (custom, expensive).

I'd definitely get a D215S over a RS1. I have a D215S now and it fidelity in sound is incredible. However its output at reference for its cost, although awesome isn't quite there. My space is similar to yours. It hits 105db @10hz before compression sets in. Ideally for films, you want it to be 115db (or more for a house curve). I'd need 4 D215s to hit 114db and 8 to hit 117db.

A single Harbottle sub will probably hit 115db at 10hz.
 

aoaaron

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If you've never owned a high-end subwoofer, I'd recommend you buy one subwoofer over two if budget is an issue unless your frequency response is not good in your desired position.

I went from 2-4 Monolith 15 V2 to one D215S and surprisingly the D215S is really difficult to localise with an 80hz crossover. The Monoliths weren't.
 
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CleanSound

CleanSound

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They used the word science and engineering in this video countless times.

 
Last edited:

Golfx

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Its your choice but I wouldn't touch JTR over Harbottle. I've seen JTR's with humming amps, amp failures, variances between units and the fit/finish is not great.

The Harbottle is all made in-house with a custom, absolutely unique long throw driver which is respected even by the AVS DIY community as god-tier. It also undergoes 500 quality checks and comes with some many performance a guarantees. I'd find it so strange to have some of the most exotic looking speakers in the world re: Perlistens next to a JTR subwoofer. The Harbottle specifications are on the site. There are some reviews on Youtube. I'm personally looking at their teased 218S subwoofer which they advertised as a prototype on Facebook. It hits 100db at 2m ground plane and 130db peaks BEFORE room gain. That'd take 8 JTR RS1s to match or probably 3-4 RS2s.

Their DSP is also FAR more advanced than JTRS so you can essentially extract the maximum level of performance from the sub like you could a DIY one.

Type in 'Harbottle C415' to see their newest sub (custom, expensive).

I'd definitely get a D215S over a RS1. I have a D215S now and it fidelity in sound is incredible. However its output at reference for its cost, although awesome isn't quite there. My space is similar to yours. It hits 105db @10hz before compression sets in. Ideally for films, you want it to be 115db (or more for a house curve). I'd need 4 D215s to hit 114db and 8 to hit 117db.

A single Harbottle sub will probably hit 115db at 10hz.
That word “probably” says it all. Harbottle, until Cody submits a sub to audioholics for review, will stay an unknown “probably.”
 
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CleanSound

CleanSound

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I recently got a pair of Ascend Acoustics Sierra-LX and damn they sound good. I haven't listened to my main system that have these Perlisten for about 4 weeks, because I was trying to figure out this apparent room resonance. Went through all the REW stuff (still so so much to learn with REW and room acoustics).

Anyway, did more tweaks with speaker placement and it solved the issue. So, I've been listening to them for the last few days, damn they sound amazing, the mid range and vocal on these Perlisten are absolute sorcery.

Hoping to get the Ascend Acoustics ELX end of this year or early next and will see how they compare with these Perlisten S7t.
 
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