My 1st home theater.

[JEHL]

Hi. 1st actual post here after lurking for like 3 years or so.

Sister told me brother-in-law wants to eventually set up a home theater, but both are currently not the most financially stable, so it hasn't been a priority, and I am still getting trained for the job at brother-in-law's workshop. Also, not currently there with them, but moving with them eventually is the idea at least.

You may be asking. Why is this context important? Mainly because I expect to take a year or so before I can begin to properly save money to do it. But I felt like posting this with the assumption that setting up a home theater is something that could take up years if not decades to master. And when I have time, but not other resources, maybe the best I can do is learn as much as I can before I have to commit.

Also because of this situation, I couldn't tell you a strict budget. But I do value performance per dollar. So hopefully, you won't be so eager to start this right away with something like Arendal 1528, Perlisten, KEF The Reference, Genelec The Ones or something equally extreme. It'll all be probably bottleneck by the room anyway.

I don't know anything about the room they want to put it in, so I can only estimate that you can expect listening position to be between 2-2.5m away from the front speakers. The house in question also has glass windows on every single room, so it's probably best for my sanity that I never delude myself with putting something truly Hi-Fi in there, and the living room, where I expect this home theater to be put in, has to enormous glass windows, I think the back one alone takes up nearly half of that wall, has a wide open entrance to the kitchen with nothing to close it off, and also a hallway with forms something of a T junction with the living room, the rooms and the exit; also with nothing to close it off. Completely untreated as far as I can tell, has a ceiling fan, has a carpet, but I don't know the thickness of this carpet, and if there are any audiophile certifications for a carpet, this one probably doesn't have any. Also, the seating appears to be a couch for 3; and once I move there, we're 4 people in total, so maybe it's in my best interest that it can cover this couch somewhat evenly rather than be the absolute best it could be for a single person. And since I'm not actually there, I probably cannot share any more details until I get there starting... 19th of November or so.

Potential budget aside, I otherwise would like to not have any prejudice towards any methodology for setting up a home theater, DIY included. Although if DIY is the best approach... I'm not exactly good at carpentry, so there's that. I've cut wood before... But not circles.

As far as I know, the TV in question is a 65" Samsung s90ca. What currently feeds audio and video to it is of unknown origin, but sister heavily implied that it doesn't come directly from the TV itself. Aside from unknown audio/video source and the TV, there's literally nothing otherwise, not even a sound bar, so ALL the audio comes from the TV's internal speakers.

Maybe the room is too horrible for even that, but I want to believe that at least we could upgrade from TV speakers.

 

[GD Fan]

Welcome to ASR. You're clearly thinking ahead, as you pointed out, and I can personally vouch for that approach. After hours and hours of research I thought I had a handle on things. Did a little more work and refined it again. That should have been the tell.

Anyway, if / when I do it (main system) again it would be different. So I'm a big proponent of spending way more time than you think you need. The project will change over time. Your knowledge will expand. Your preferences will therefore perhaps change a bit.

As for advice I'd say start with 2ch stereo, add a center, add a sub, then go 5 Mch. Consider a 2nd sub before Atmos.

Rooms are always a challenge. We literally live within those constraints. Accept that it will never be perfect, it's quite liberating.

Enjoy the whole thing. You're clearly way ahead of where I was. Probably still!

 

[JEHL]

So... Dunning-Kruger effect?

Also, to my understanding, center may not be that necessary. At least I heard and read a lot of stories where the home theater owner must go out of their way to prove that they DON'T have a center; either that or they have a center but reveal the plot twist that the center speaker was unplugged the whole time.

The best assumption I can make here is that as long as you can draw a triangle between you and 2 speakers, it's good enough for most people.

Atmos is something that I'm also not too sure if it'll be that much of an upgrade either. It clearly is an upgrade, but I just wonder if I'm reaching a juice not worth the squeeze situation at that point, especially since while you can get away with cheap speakers, I'm not sure distributing those channels is cheap.

THAT being said. IF my home theater ends up expensive, it's much more preferable that it's expensive because it has at least 10 channels, subwoofers and Atmos included, and not because I went overboard with exotic speakers/sources.

 

[Blumlein 88]

So... Dunning-Kruger effect?

Also, to my understanding, center may not be that necessary. At least I heard and read a lot of stories where the home theater owner must go out of their way to prove that they DON'T have a center; either that or they have a center but reveal the plot twist that the center speaker was unplugged the whole time.

The best assumption I can make here is that as long as you can draw a triangle between you and 2 speakers, it's good enough for most people.

Atmos is something that I'm also not too sure if it'll be that much of an upgrade either. It clearly is an upgrade, but I just wonder if I'm reaching a juice not worth the squeeze situation at that point, especially since while you can get away with cheap speakers, I'm not sure distributing those channels is cheap.

THAT being said. IF my home theater ends up expensive, it's much more preferable that it's expensive because it has at least 10 channels, subwoofers and Atmos included, and not because I went overboard with exotic speakers/sources.

Actually I think the center is very important. Yes it can work without it, but works better with it and you have a wider area over which is sound more as it should for dialog. I wish audio had developed with 3 channels up front instead of stereo. It didn't. I do agree with doing 5.1 first and add Atmos if you want it later. Also you may not know, the center channel in home theater gets more of the signal than any other channel. So skipping it for home theater is workable, but not a great choice.

 

[Descartes]

My first home theater 5.1 was in a 12x11 feet size room with all speakers were the original KEF LS50. It was fantastic. Since then I upgraded the room and speakers, but my point is you don’t need a big room or expensive equipment to make a home theater especially for two people.

Ideally you would want to have all three front speakers the same or at least from the same brand!

Don’t skip on the center channel it is primordial for movies or watching TV!

Also for Atmos if your room is large enough get 6 in ceiling speakers.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

Without details it's hard, but general advice? Sure.

There are many serviceable AV receivers out there, not too expensive. Looking at Amazon because I am lazy....

Let's set the lower end of possible. Right now you can get basic 5.1 systems (receiver and speakers) for around $500. You can get 7.1 or .2 receivers for $500ish. 9.2 receivers are like $1500 or so (amir has reviewed some of these of course).

I'm seeing OK level speaker packs at around $1000. Some of which are labeled as 5.1/2 but have towers with atmos speakers on top, so 5.2.2 in some cases.

So $1500 is likely your low end if not going super budget, not counting wire, stands, mounts, etc.

This:

Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-600M II 7.1 Bookshelf Speaker Home Theater System with 6.5” Cerametallic Woofers in Ebony with Onkyo TX-NR6100 7.2 Channel THX Certified Network AV Receiver​

$2,966.00 ($1,483.00/Item)


Is on Amazon right now, and would not suck. Klipsch has a seemingly infinite amount of speaker/theater packs, btw. I am not recommending them, or not recommending them, I just used them for a price reference. Polk has similar speaker packs. Elac has some, better to my eye and ear, and you pay for that. Most major brands will have such options. Sometimes they are a great deal, sometimes not.

So without any work, planning, or thinking, you are looking at a budget of $1500-3000. Which isn't all that bad for what you can get. Careful shopping will get you better results, and I am SURE you will get many options here once you know a budget and what kind of system/room is in play.

I'm not exactly good at carpentry, so there's that. I've cut wood before... But not circles.

I suggest you hold off on full build of a theater set up until you know if people will actually use it as a theater. Many find they don't. That will lower the initial budget. Plus a home theater will turn off more buyers than it will attract, so in terms of resale value this is all wasted money, or so I would look at it. So set it up, see how it goes, then do the room build part if that makes sense.

Maybe the room is too horrible for even that, but I want to believe that at least we could upgrade from TV speakers.

Many people find a soundbar and sub with surrounds to be really nice. And easy to move to another room later if the full theater set up is desired.

 

[JEHL]

FWIW, I think what I looked up as a quick reference was $3700 for a KEF Q series 5 channel system. Couldn't tell you what the price of the rest would be. But if I have to buy instead of DIYing, I'd probably go with a pair of RSL Speedwoofer 12S which would total $5300 before sources. That being said, I think this is where it may be worth DIY anyway just so I can stick a pair of UMII18-22 in some 24" concrete form... Not that I expect that to be an easy undertaking, nor I have a good assessment of how sturdy a concrete form is... Or even how to get one for that matter.

A pair if KALI audio IN-8 V2 for the front and IN-5 V2 for the back have also been considerations... No clue what you'd put in the front if that's the case. But I wonder if I'd mess their response by detaching their amplifiers to stick some extra bracing and sound deadening without hopefully fundamentally changing the enclosure internal volume. Maybe another IN-5 V2 facing up for center, or laying on its side?

However, I think it may be ultimately may be running into a juice not worth the squeeze scenario for the center channel anyway. Because what else is at the center? The screen itself. And I didn't say anything about the 65" TV being a finalized decision... Did I?

But, of course again, not much I can do in terms of details I can give. I only know one detail for certain that I may have glossed over. I do expect 2 people to be there regularly on the couch.

Edit: Budget correction

 

[GXAlan]

There are probably different recommendations for $1000 vs $3000. When I first read the Klipsch recommendation, I was actually worried that it would be too expensive. Looking at your KEF comment, maybe your budget is higher.

Everyone has different perspective on financial stability. Stability in New York City is different from stability in a small rural town.

 

[JEHL]

As said before. Because of the nature of being planned so far ahead, I'm trying to gauge how much it's worth saving for.

At least I feel like as long as I don't reach the 5 digits. I wouldn't feel particularly uncomfortable about the budget.

Also I guess it couldn't hurt buying the Q6 meta while I can still place it on the shelf below the TV and sell it in the event that it doesn't work out during a screen upgrade.

Also without hopefully being overly specific, all of this will take place in a house of a Louisiana suburb and I'm training for an automobile paint shop.

Am I thinking all of this too far ahead considering the context? Am I overthinking it?

 

[JeffS7444]

Oh heck, if you're listening to the TV's built-in speakers now, even an inexpensive soundbar may be all it takes to blow everyone away. Powerful bass really impresses people, but clear, crisp dialog will be what keeps 'em coming back for more. And when it needs to please other people, simpler is usually better. $100-500 ought to be a good place to start, and maybe it'll be all "they" want.

 

[GXAlan]

At least I feel like as long as I don't reach the 5 digits. I wouldn't feel particularly uncomfortable about the budget.

That’s helpful. Your comments about lack of financial instability had me worried that I would be advising someone into horrible debt by suggesting a setup.

1) Do you prioritize sound above all or do aesthetics matter?
2) How big is the room?
3) How much freedom do you have to place the speakers?

Active speakers are the way to go if you don’t need aesthetics. While the speakers themselves aren’t ugly if the industrial look is OK, running power and audio for each speaker creates a real maze of cables. You could run active speakers for the LCR and passive speakers for the rears, for example, since speaker wire is easier to hide and route compared to 120V AC power and XLR audio.

The assumption is that you are listening around 75 dB with 95 dB peaks, or 10 dB below reference level at 2-3m.

If your speaker layout is compromised, I strongly suggest the Yamaha or Sony AVRs that do a better job than other mainstream brands in this scenario. Don’t worry about SINAD. I currently run an all Meyer Sound/Trinnov setup, but I previously had the Sony STR-ZA5000ES, Yamaha CX-A5100, and Monolith HTP-1 with DLBC.

My recommendation for best sound, I don’t care about looks and I have compromised speaker locations:

JBL 308 MkII x 4 - $800
Yamaha RX-A8A when on sale $1600
Klipsch RP40 x4 - $600
PSA S1512M - $1150

The JBL 308 MkII are superb speakers for the money if you can deal with the cabling. In this approach, I have gone with a 4.0 setup.

Atmos adds a lot with both upsampling, and modern streaming shows. With ceiling mounted speakers, top middle is fine and you just need 2 Atmos speakers. With upfiring speakers, all four help. Most importantly, for upfiring Atmos speakers to work well, they need to be able to project high SPLs with less compression, and have the formal Dolby crossover specifications. I have found the Klipsch upfiring Atmos speakers to meet that criteria. The other Atmos speakers I have used with smaller designs don’t work well.

Within subs, even as a user of Waveforming, I subscribe the approach of one really good sub instead of two mediocre subs. If your budget allows, get two of the PSA subs. If it doesn’t, a single sub can give you good sound in one spot.

The Yamaha is controversial. The A8A has amplification somewhere between the Denon 6800 and 8500, but in this case you are really just using it for the Atmos speakers. It feels like a waste, but the combination of CinemaDSP and upfiring speakers works really well, along with Yamaha’s loudness control. Since your 308p speakers don’t need a ton of EQ, the Yamaha room correction is fine and the DIY part is the PEQ for the subs. The Yamaha’s do NOT pump out a ton of voltage which is why their 2v SINAD is poor BUT they do well at low voltage, with my CX-A5100 beating the HTP-1 and Trinnov. The 308P in high gain mode will be fine here.

No one is going to agree with my recommendation but I sincerely think that’s the sweet spot to consider, with room to cut costs by going to the RSL sub you mentioned earlier, finding a RX-A6A or CX-A5100/5200 and dropping to a 4.1 setup instead of a 4.1.4. By choosing the A8A, if speaker aesthetics are an issue, you can substitute any passive speaker.

If you can place the speakers properly, swap the AVR for a Denon X3800H.

 

[Sal1950]

Actually I think the center is very important. Yes it can work without it, but works better with it and you have a wider area over which is sound more as it should for dialog. I wish audio had developed with 3 channels up front instead of stereo. It didn't. I do agree with doing 5.1 first and add Atmos if you want it later. Also you may not know, the center channel in home theater gets more of the signal than any other channel. So skipping it for home theater is workable, but not a great choice.

Ditto! For movies and TV the center is very important, for music maybe less so but you said HT.
Start with an inexpensive AVR like Denon X3800H, Marantz Cinema 60, maybe even a nice clean used.
Add a $100 Apple 4k TV box to stream very high quality music, movies, and alternative TV shows.
Figure your leftover budget, and buy 4+center, or 5 identical speakers, the best you can afford with the rest.

Other goodies like overhead Atmos speakers, subwoofers, extra amps, and the rest can be added later.