Pass Labs.

[Wes]

may I suggest getting 3.7 Maggies ??

 

[Msheridanjj]

It doesn't hurt either that the SQ performance is there. I purchased the 402D's on a lark since they were $200 a pop on close out. I had Parasound HCA 1500A's at the time and when I swapped out for the 402D's the tweeters no longer had any hissing.

It doesn't hurt either that the SQ performance is there. I purchased the 402D's on a lark since they were $200 a pop on close out. I had Parasound HCA 1500A's at the time and when I swapped out for the 402D's the tweeters no longer had any hissing.

Years ago I compared some Crown XLS 402D monoblocked vs some $12,000 worth of Pass Labs gear on some power hungry maggies.

The Crowns were hands down favored.

Gorganzola I` like to know what preamp are you using with your Purifi power Amp? also are you suggesting that the Crown amps would be a better choice oppose to the Pass X350? also would you agree the Purifi amp would not be the Power amp to try to power the larger Maggies 3.6, 3.7i, 20.1, 20.7, 30.7`s ?

It doesn't hurt either that the SQ performance is there. I purchased the 402D's on a lark since they were $200 a pop on close out. I had Parasound HCA 1500A's at the time and when I swapped out for the 402D's the tweeters no longer had any hissing.

 

[avanti1960]

Nelson is a skilled marketer. "Voices," uhhhhh, right.

Have you ever spent time with a Pass Labs amplifier?

 

[SIY]

Have you ever spent time with a Pass Labs amplifier?

Yes.

 

[avanti1960]

Their amps look like they are all spec'd at 1% distortion, which is -40dB.

That's a lot.

incorrect. see the XA25 amp for example which is rated spec'd at 0.1% and measures much less.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/pass-laboratories-xa25-power-amplifier-measurements

 

[BDWoody]

incorrect. see the XA25 amp for example which is rated spec'd at 0.1% and measures much less.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/pass-laboratories-xa25-power-amplifier-measurements

 

[Wes]

Have you ever spent time with a Pass Labs amplifier?

and was it Quality Time?

 

[BlackTalon]

Bottom line is you could take a $30K budget and blow ~1/2 on amplification, another 1/4 on a source, 1/4 on cabling and with the rest speakers.

I would bet that system would sound very, very transparent. The speakers would literally just disappear in the room.

 

[Jinjuku]

What I love about these threads is that it's fundamentally about personal preference and when I point out that some people listening to $400 worth of mono blocked amps vs ~$12K and there wasn't a clear cut winner and all the sudden....

 

[HorizonsEdge]

What I love about these threads is that it's fundamentally about personal preference and when I point out that some people listening to $400 worth of mono blocked amps vs ~$12K and there wasn't a clear cut winner and all the sudden....

don't leave us hanging . . . .

 

[Msheridanjj]

What I love about these threads is that it's fundamentally about personal preference and when I point out that some people listening to $400 worth of mono blocked amps vs ~$12K and there wasn't a clear cut winner and all the sudden....

Your right on point, there`s more to say about this issue please don`t leave us hanging lol.

 

[Jinjuku]

and all the sudden the opinions that line up with esoteric equipment that lines up with positive outcomes is the correct opinion, but the opinion that lines up with $400 worth of pro audio gear is incorrect.

I thought this was all subjective no?

 

[dtaylo1066]

At what level does amplifier distortion become audible, may be the real question?

 

[somebodyelse]

At what level does amplifier distortion become audible, may be the real question?

The audibility thresholds thread (among others) tries to cover that, or you can try it out for yourself using something like Distort.

 

[DSJR]

My friend the only thing I would own Crown Is my 1/2 track and 1/4 800 series reel to reels. They are BEAST!!

Then you're missing out on several decades of truthful amplification by amps with absolutely NO obvious character at all apart from some old 'D' series that may self-limit/protect themselves into modern 3 - 4 ohm speaker loads but still measure pretty damned well despite being forty to fifty years old! I expect a fifty year old D-150 not to 'sound' so different to a modern class D amp but who knows

A poster on a valves and DIY forum who loves low powered hime made valve gear and large full range DIY speakers was brought up short by a 'very well travelled' Crown pro power amp of some description (I think it's one of the later models but not sure - sorry). He was stunned how 'good' it sounded in his particular system (it was a friendly sighted bake-off, so the chips would have been against this old workhorse 'sounding' any good at all).

I look on Pass amps and their competition as beautifully presented boxes with I'm sure a 'sound' with no audible nasties at all and maybe just a little bit of circuit 'tuning' to always keep the sound safe and well behaved into the most tetchy of loads. Nowt wrong with that, but as stuff like this is for the wealthy (retirees?) now, I just don't look that way I'm afraid. I'm sure his main designs are rather better than many of the competing lavish boxes out there and certainly not as deliberately characterful? as McIntosh and ARC for example...

P.S. One thing to try on some 'high end' amps 'with character' is to see if different recordings and mixes genuinely sound different, or do they all have a (nice?) varnish put over the sound that makes everything sound equally 'wonderful' but all the same?

 

[Wes]

AFAIK, most of Nelson Pass's patents are for speaker designs.

Nonetheless, he designed for Nakamichi, Threshold, the Adcom GFA-555 amplifier, and... he likes MOSFETs.

He ran Amp Camp, freely gives away his (older) designs, and - just like Benchmark - minimizes switching effects (from Class A to B).

He thinks that current measurement methodology does not capture all sounds or distortions from amplifiers.

I think @Amir should ask to interview him on YouTube with attention to the last 2 stmts. I put above, and maybe soft clipping too. Both can be overcome with Class D and I'd like to hear his comments on Class D. It has been 5 years since his last comments on it, AFAIK.

 

[ta240]

Nelson is a skilled marketer. "Voices," uhhhhh, right.

The reason his amps are so disliked here is because they aren't a straight wire with gain; so if he controls the way the sound is altered doesn't that equate to voicing?

Yes.

Was it a Pass Labs or a First Watt product? Just curious because the First Watt amps are the ones that he plays around much more with the sound.

Absolutely. And he is an extremely genial and generous guy. I have zero negative to say about Nelson as a person.

I don't believe the marketing.

The marketing or the hype? Those two get mixed up a lot when it comes to Mr. Pass. All the claims I've seen from him seem to be very mild and he generally talks opening about going for different sounds with the First Watt amps rather than a pure signal from start to finish. His fans tend to fall all over themselves making big claims about hearing more details, etc. But fans can get a little crazy, just try questioning Amir's methods here....

AFAIK, most of Nelson Pass's patents are for speaker designs.

Nonetheless, he designed for Nakamichi, Threshold, the Adcom GFA-555 amplifier, and... he likes MOSFETs.

He ran Amp Camp, freely gives away his (older) designs, and - just like Benchmark - minimizes switching effects (from Class A to B).

He thinks that current measurement methodology does not capture all sounds or distortions from amplifiers.

I think @Amir should ask to interview him on YouTube with attention to the last 2 stmts. I put above, and maybe soft clipping too. Both can be overcome with Class D and I'd like to hear his comments on Class D. It has been 5 years since his last comments on it, AFAIK.

Or just realize that both people have different goals in audio reproduction and move on. One likes listening to super clear reproduction at high volume levels and one likes listening to what they consider pleasant reproduction at lower levels. At some point it just ends up like arguing if ribs should be sauced or rubbed or if any seasoning is just adulterating the meat taste.

 

[SIY]

The reason his amps are so disliked here is because they aren't a straight wire with gain; so if he controls the way the sound is altered doesn't that equate to voicing?



Was it a Pass Labs or a First Watt product? Just curious because the First Watt amps are the ones that he plays around much more with the sound.



The marketing or the hype? Those two get mixed up a lot when it comes to Mr. Pass. All the claims I've seen from him seem to be very mild and he generally talks opening about going for different sounds with the First Watt amps rather than a pure signal from start to finish. His fans tend to fall all over themselves making big claims about hearing more details, etc. But fans can get a little crazy, just try questioning Amir's methods here....



Or just realize that both people have different goals in audio reproduction and move on. One likes listening to super clear reproduction at high volume levels and one likes listening to what they consider pleasant reproduction at lower levels. At some point it just ends up like arguing if ribs should be sauced or rubbed or if any seasoning is just adulterating the meat taste.

You made a lot of assumptions, many of which aren’t supported by evidence.

 

[ta240]

You made a lot of assumptions, many of which aren’t supported by evidence.

Care to expand on that? Or is this not a discussion?

Is the reason his amps aren't liked here something different from the fact that they add distortions to the signal? Based on comments and an actual review; that doesn't seem to be an assumption.

Asking if the amp you heard was first watt or pass labs was a question, not an assumption. I've seen Mr Pass himself say the First Watt amps are his play area where he gets to experiment with the sound, so that isn't an assumption. I was just curious which one or ones you listened to.

Is there somewhere in his marketing material that says his amps are something that they are not? I've read a fair amount of it over the years and don't see any baseless claims being made.

Mr. Pass is very open about his goals with his first watt amps and that signal purity is not as important as what he finds pleasurable for listening. He also talks about his listening setup and the way he listens which makes it clear he doesn't go for the full power impactful playback. Amir often talks about amps not being able to drive speakers properly to his listening levels and speakers not being able to handle the proper levels. That would be a clear indication that he listens at a much louder level than someone using a 5-20 watt amp.

I fail to see an assumption.

 

[jtgofish]

Care to expand on that? Or is this not a discussion?

Is the reason his amps aren't liked here something different from the fact that they add distortions to the signal? Based on comments and an actual review; that doesn't seem to be an assumption.

Asking if the amp you heard was first watt or pass labs was a question, not an assumption. I've seen Mr Pass himself say the First Watt amps are his play area where he gets to experiment with the sound, so that isn't an assumption. I was just curious which one or ones you listened to.

Is there somewhere in his marketing material that says his amps are something that they are not? I've read a fair amount of it over the years and don't see any baseless claims being made.

Mr. Pass is very open about his goals with his first watt amps and that signal purity is not as important as what he finds pleasurable for listening. He also talks about his listening setup and the way he listens which makes it clear he doesn't go for the full power impactful playback. Amir often talks about amps not being able to drive speakers properly to his listening levels and speakers not being able to handle the proper levels. That would be a clear indication that he listens at a much louder level than someone using a 5-20 watt amp.

I fail to see an assumption.

Interesting comments about listening levels.Listening at loud volume is really a very different thing to listening at lowish volumes and will impact on the type of system and what type of music you prefer.For people who listen at loudish levels a clean and low distortion sound is likely to be what they prefer .Unfortunately that sort of sound also tends to be far less involving when listening at lower volumes and people who start out listening at higher volumes may never come to appreciate the less fatiguing, more subtle,and arguably more fulfilling aspects of a system which has been designed to sound detailed and involving at a lower volume .That very well may involve some manipulation or voicing of the sound which might come with slightly poorer measured performance like lower damping factor.From what I have heard Nelson Pass designs tend to sound good at lower volumes compared to most other SS amplifiers but that also tends to true of most really good sounding amplifiers.