What evidence do you have for this? It seems questionable.Lower supply voltage tends to increase sonic differences IMO.
What evidence do you have for this? It seems questionable.Lower supply voltage tends to increase sonic differences IMO.
The critical thing in your sentence is: "will/may". You are half correct: it may introduce defects, but you can't be certain that it will.Running op amps on what is effectively +/-6v will/may compromise the performance and introduce audible defects.
An uneducated op amp swap could also turn your amplifier into an oscillator.Rolling a OP amp from a circuit that was designed and calculated for the OP amp that is in use from the factory is like shooting with a shotgun and hoping you hit something far away. I don't recommend OP amp rolling but if you want to go for it there are a ton of skills that can be gleaned from the operations. It's nice to see somebody going at it from a objective approach although we don't know what calculations the designer(s) performed while making this circuitry and any OP amp that would be swapped would be a guess at best.
We don't do opinions here. If you don't have specific design details (component spec versus circuit design), or measurements, then "opinions are like assholes - everybody has one"Lower supply voltage tends to increase sonic differences IMO
Which means that the amp is no longer stable when using MUSE02. I would not run an amplifier that did this.I changed the op-amps to MUSE02 in my Fosi BT20A Pro. The amp became much better sounding from that. There is one minor issue, I get a weird oscillating sound when the amp first powers on sometimes, for a few seconds.
This sounds like a recipe for desaster. What type was the original opamp?I changed the op-amps to MUSE02 in my Fosi BT20A Pro. The amp became much better sounding from that. There is one minor issue, I get a weird oscillating sound when the amp first powers on sometimes, for a few seconds.
Seems like the manufacturer neither recalculated the design with the replacements nor test them properly.The manufacturer sells the upgrade here:
Replaceable BT20A PRO V3 Op-Amp Chips - SS3602, MUSES02, OPA
Upgrade your music experience with SparkoS Labs SS3602, MUSES02, OPA2604AP, OPA2134PA - high-quality amplifier chips for BT20A PRO and V3.fosiaudio.com
The NE5532 is fine and, if the circuit is designed for it, hard to beat in its performance. I expect both OPAs mentioned to rather decrease S/N (noise is audible) and maybe reduce distortion, but down from a level which is already inaudible.NE5532. It's been working fine, do I need to be concerned?
Fire. Speakers destroyed. These are the things I'd keep an eye out for. But then I wouldn't need to because I know that (thanks to working on mixing consoles full of them) the 5532 is perfectly adequate for audio and so would not have swapped them in the first place.Is it because I got the MUSE02 op-amps from Digikey? They are not from Fosi. I find it hard to believe a reputable manufacturer would recommend something that is unsafe, but I guess it's possible. Anyway, I will continue to use them because they sound better, and work fine. Is there some sort of malfunction I should watch out for?
If you have an op amp inferior to the 5532 then its not a waste of timeI was curious, bought an Aiyima A07 and replaced the opamps:
- opa2604: Noise in the silence (maybe the Jfet input). Sound, if you want to call it that, unbearable, crumbly. Either I was sold counterfeits at the time (around 2000) or the circuit is not suitable for use with the opa2604. This is what Amir meant by: “... for those of you who have nothing better to do than mess up the design.”
- LM4562: I couldn't hear any difference at all from the standard NE5532.
I've tried op-amp rolling now and ticked it off as a waste of time.
Ya know it's strange I've used the exact extensions 7 different times in 4 different products and NEVER had a single issue other than being able to roll theIf you roll in a high bandwidth opamp, they can be very useful for inducing oscillation. This can destroy a lot of other circuitry, which allows the roller much opportunity to learn something about the circuits he's now repairing. If everything goes well, it can even cause failure of other parts of the electronics chain, which allows the roller to help the economy by needing to buy new gear, thus promoting the audio industry.
I'd say what is very likely is that you don't know and are speculating and that he does know because he did the swap and listened to the result. The most importantThat is rather unlikely.
What did they write about the strange noise at power up?The response from Fosi was:
"Yes, you can use MUSE02 op-amps (from DigiKey) in the Fosi Audio BT20A PRO with 48V 5A PSU.
The changed op amp needs to meet DIP8 dual op-amps. And BT20A PRO supports 48V supply, here is a power table for your reference."
Not even close. If he "listened" without basic controls, his impressions are worthless. Anyone with basic experience in design using opamps knows how incredibly unlikely these claims are.I'd say what is very likely is that you don't know and are speculating and that he does know because he did the swap and listened to the result.
Now there's a delightful Gish Gallop of misinformation and superstition. Well done! All we need now is the wife in the kitchen.Ya know it's strange I've used the exact extensions 7 different times in 4 different products and NEVER had a single issue other than being able to roll the
OpAmp and give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Some people may be able to hold the cables in some strange way to cause what you claim but never
in the 7 time or the other 10+ people I know that have used the very same cabling, that recommended the extensions to me. I've read all kinds
of claims of shorter cables, the cables not being twisted in the build, soldering instead of plugs, no change in sound from rolling, toroidal transformers
being better, the potential for noise from a switching power supply and don't worry about the input or output typed of plugs "they make no difference."
Maybe I'll have some 24" extensions made up and test your claim on actual amps working in an actual stereo system. I'll bet money they work fine the way
I'll use them. I understand there are people that can break an anvil, personally I never have.
The only thing I've ever experienced personally is Speak-On connectors suck for fidelity and anything other than copper, silver or copper/silver clad
or gold over any of them, is a crap shoot. I did and do use Speak-On with Behringer NU12K BUT they are verified copper by me.
I have 9 pairs of class D and one triple rail, triple P/S with the option to roll OpAmps. The only ones that are having any problem are the ones that
don't have the option. ICE ASP1000s. Even the little 39.00 specials from PE with a voltage regulator upgrade have worked perfect for close to 10
years with Sparco, Sonic Image, and Wiess. One did fail, I contacted Andrew at Sparko and he quickly identified the issue and confirmed he had
simular experiences with the Rev A-B Nord buffer boards. Simple PS upgrade using a Sparco regulator.
I read aluminum power cable weaves cause oscillation in the early class D tech. I'm not silly enough to temp fate and try that one. BUT I don't
use aluminum cabling either.
I been trying to blow up class Ds for over 10 years now. The closest I've seen is Wyred4sound SX1000 (no R). Upon inspection one amp in each of two
pairs visually had cap bulge. I had 4 pairs. 2 pairs had NO visual issues and no failures on any of them. I found that both pairs (that had cap heave)
were plugged into a single 15 amp receptacle vs a voltage maintainer like mine of the same vintage. They all were used in bass duty on the same type
of speakers. VMPS RM40s. I think they were browning out and heating up. Just a theory. I also left mine on, in standby for the 5 years I used them. He
turned his off and on after every use.
I gave up on repairing any of these modules for one simple reason it's too easy to swap a board out. To date not a single NC500oem has given me any
problems and there is well over 15 pairs of MB from DIY, and Nord. I have one Peachtree stereo unit that's been on for 3 years (the wife's) and one
3 rail from Nord I've used a woppin' 8 hours since it was gifted to me from the wife almost 5 years ago. Rev Ds.
I have a new Flex 8 on the way, I'll see what all the rage is with a speaker build of GSR Neo 10s and GSR 3.0 tweeters. Lets see what they use for OpAmps,
and subjectively sound like, compared to a First Watt analog active crossover. I care about one thing "How does it sound." After all it doesn't matter what
anyone speculates or measures it still has to pass the most important test of all. "How does it sound in my room with my gear, to me?"
Regards
I admire this level of confidence. I do not know how to reach it.Well, the MUSE02 op-amps definitely sounded better.
But you are aware of the phenomenon called "bias", aren't you? There is more than a good chance that this "difference" is not in the sound at all but only in your "hearing", aka the feeling connected to the situation.When I put in the new op-amps, I immediately noticed a difference that felt like an improvement to my ears.
I don't know. I used the amp for a while with the stock op-amps and got an idea of what it sounded like. When I put in the new op-amps, I immediately noticed a difference that felt like an improvement to my ears. I don't know if it measures better, but it sounded better subjectively speaking.