• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Op Amp Rolling

I don't know. I used the amp for a while with the stock op-amps and got an idea of what it sounded like. When I put in the new op-amps, I immediately noticed a difference that felt like an improvement to my ears. I don't know if it measures better, but it sounded better subjectively speaking.
It's all in your mind. You are imagining there must be a difference and so you hear one and somehow through this determine the difference to be a improvement. You and a billion(s) others have been tricked. Me included. :D It's good to see enthusiasm and drive to delve into the workings of the PCB and swap out parts that you have it on good ideas will work if you roll OP amps. I was into soldering PCBs entirely to increase current capacity. It was pointless but I learned to solder fast...LoL.
 
Well, the MUSE02 op-amps definitely sounded better.
Can you please describe the controls and experimental setup you used to arrive at this remarkable claim?
 
I don't know. I used the amp for a while with the stock op-amps and got an idea of what it sounded like. When I put in the new op-amps, I immediately noticed a difference that felt like an improvement to my ears. I don't know if it measures better, but it sounded better subjectively speaking.
This is the expectation bias working at its best.

Been there, done that: It happened to me as well when I rolled the opamps in my Arcam Black Box 3 DAC - a night and day improvement. But the next day I made a blind test with a 2nd unmodified DAC and the differences were almost inaudible and, as I found out many years later, very likely caused by the modified DAC having a marginally higher output level (2.50 V) than the original DAC (2.44 V).
 
I don't know. I used the amp for a while with the stock op-amps and got an idea of what it sounded like. When I put in the new op-amps, I immediately noticed a difference that felt like an improvement to my ears. I don't know if it measures better, but it sounded better subjectively speaking.
Even just listening for a difference - you will hear one. You are now listening carefully, and noticing things you don't notice when just listening to music.

And that is even before we get into all the perceptive and cognitive biases which actually change what you hear based on all sorts of stuff other than the sound.

changing op amps is incredibly unlikely to result in an audible change - simply becasue of the way they work. It is the circuit around them that primarily defines how they will perform, once a certain level of decent performance is achieved.

And if you can't measure a difference, you definitely cannot hear one.
 
It really does depend on the circuit. Swapping between opa27 and opa1611 in an emerald phono for the mc stage is clearly audible, and measurable about 4db less noise. But thats providing buckets of gain....

Mostly, if the designer has chosen well you'll just make it worse.
 
It really does depend on the circuit. Swapping between opa27 and opa1611 in an emerald phono for the mc stage is clearly audible, and measurable about 4db less noise. But thats providing buckets of gain....

Mostly, if the designer has chosen well you'll just make it worse.
Audible noise is one of the few areas that can change if you swap to a lower noise device, assuming you don't mess up something else (such as stability) at the same time.

But that is only the case if you can actually hear the noise (typically hiss) before the change.
 
Years ago I did a mod on a Dynaco PAT5 preamp which involved replacing the op amp among other things. The SN ratio was degraded to the point that the unit was a throw away.
 
Fosi asked me to send a video of the problem, so I recorded this. Here it is, in case anyone here can shed some light on this issue.

That is a horribly unstable amplifier. Stop using it now if you value your speakers. Your problem is you have no idea what energy it is putting out at ultrasonic frequencies** - that you can't hear, but can possibly toast your tweeters.

EDIT - or just put the stock Opamps back in.

**And that might be continuous, based on the rising pitch in your video.
 
Last edited:
Fosi asked me to send a video of the problem, so I recorded this. Here it is, in case anyone here can shed some light on this issue.

That's bad. I would recommend not using it until Fosi have investigated.
 
Fosi asked me to send a video of the problem, so I recorded this. Here it is, in case anyone here can shed some light on this issue.
That might be EXACTLY what Amir was talking about in respect to "messing with the design" and others mentioning problems of stability that can lead to oscillations.
But you know that already. And what is the risk? Maybe the amp and opamp, maybe a speaker. That's not nice, but it is not going to burn your house down, will it?

So lets look on the bright side.
With the stock opamps all this nice whistling would probably be lost for good. Who knows, with a bit of drift in some part of the circuit you might even hear a full symphony. Isn't that what everybody wants: an amp that acts like a musical instrument? Great improvement in sound, no doubt!
:facepalm:;)
 
Sure sounds like oscillation to me...I would not use those particular op-amps, if I cared about my speakers...!

I have used 4562 op-amps in place of the stock 5532 amps, also Burson V5i op-amps...no clear improvement, no veils lifted, but they seem stable and cause no problems with my Aiyima amps...
 
I want to replace the op amps to fix this amp. I asked what I could try. The response from Fosi was:

"Yes, you can try LME49720 ,OPA2134PA , SPARKOS LABS SS3602 Discrete dual channel Op Amp, Ss2590, RM4559,OP249, AD827 etc."

Which of these should I try first? Where is best place to get them?
Frankly, I would stick with what was originally in there, as it's generally only golden-ear people who seem to hear differences. What was the original spec - 5532s?

In the US, I know you can get 5532s and 4562s from Mouser or Digi-Key and be sure they are genuine. Not expensive. Probably they have 2134s as well.

Sparkos, you can order direct from them. Expensive, far more than the cost of the amp. Some people swear by them. It's a road I chose not to go down.
 
That might be EXACTLY what Amir was talking about in respect to "messing with the design" and others mentioning problems of stability that can lead to oscillations.
But you know that already. And what is the risk? Maybe the amp and opamp, maybe a speaker. That's not nice, but it is not going to burn your house down, will it?

So lets look on the bright side.
With the stock opamps all this nice whistling would probably be lost for good. Who knows, with a bit of drift in some part of the circuit you might even hear a full symphony. Isn't that what everybody wants: an amp that acts like a musical instrument? Great improvement in sound, no doubt!
:facepalm:;)
"It's very musical."
"Really? Which instrument does it play?"
"What?"
 
I got a reply from Fosi. They said the amp is an older model, and isn't fully compatible with MUSE02. So I will stop using it.

I don't have the original op-amps.

"The previous BT20A PRO is not fully compatible with MUSE02, and there will be this kind of current noise. Do you have the ability to add a 22PF capacitor at coordinates C14/C54?"
Ha, I knew it.;)
I want to replace the op amps to fix this amp. I asked what I could try. The response from Fosi was:

"Yes, you can try LME49720 ,OPA2134PA , SPARKOS LABS SS3602 Discrete dual channel Op Amp, Ss2590, RM4559,OP249, AD827 etc."

Which of these should I try first? Where is best place to get them?
If the original is the NE5532, then these. The LME49720 is the best replacement regarding SINAD. It's 6 times faster and I would not use it without measurements, but since Fosi recommends it it should not be unstable. Both are so cheap that shipping is more expensive then the price of the chips.
 
since Fosi recommends it it should not be unstable.
Famous last words. They're selling a gimmick to deal with a parity (and commodity these days) product.
I want to replace the op amps to fix this amp. I asked what I could try. The response from Fosi was:

"Yes, you can try LME49720 ,OPA2134PA , SPARKOS LABS SS3602 Discrete dual channel Op Amp, Ss2590, RM4559,OP249, AD827 etc."

Which of these should I try first? Where is best place to get them?

Stick with the original, none of the others will give any actual improvement. Digikey, Mouser, Newark are all reliable go-to suppliers.
 
I really don't like the sound of the NE5532P op-amps in my Fosi BT20A PRO. I can't wait to try the OPA2134PA's instead. Are there any others worth trying in the list (LME49720 ,OPA2134PA , SPARKOS LABS SS3602 Discrete dual channel Op Amp, Ss2590, RM4559,OP249, AD827)?
You may as well replace your power cable too while you're at it. The last 6 feet are the most important, I was told.
 
I really don't like the sound of the NE5532P op-amps in my Fosi BT20A PRO. I can't wait to try the OPA2134PA's instead. Are there any others worth trying in the list (LME49720 ,OPA2134PA , SPARKOS LABS SS3602 Discrete dual channel Op Amp, Ss2590, RM4559,OP249, AD827)?
Since the sound of the DAC with any properly functioning replacement opamp will be the same, you may want to either sell the DAC or use non-digital sources.
 
Back
Top Bottom