Old DAC died, looking for a new one with a remote (and other requirements)

[gn77b]

So my DAC died a few days ago and I'm looking for a new one.

Must-have: a remote, because I use a power amp without adjustable volume

Nice to have: a headphone out that can power pretty much any headphone and a readable display for volume, currently selected input etc

Preferable: balanced outputs, optical in, wireless

What are your recommendations?

 

[chelgrian]

You just described an RME ADI-2 DAC FS

https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html

 

[Eidie]

I second that. Had one for a month and it’s a fantastic piece of kit. No wireless though.

 

[3125b]

If you want to spend that kind of money, the RME is certainly a very good option. Feel free to play around with the DSP features, it can do quite a lot including parametric EQ. It also has a maximum output level of 19dBU or 6.9Vrms wich is more than most consumer DACs and can be helpful with some more modern, lower gain amps. The headphone amp is very good and plenty powerful, but unbalanced only (not that it matters). The display is nice to look at if for nothing else but the visualization of the content being played.
I'm very happy with my older (about two years) ADI-2 Pro FS wich is quite similar in many ways.
I would currently steer clear of SMSL and maybe Gustard for pending issues, and many of the cheapest balanced DACs don't have volume control. The Topping DX7 Pro would be an option at 650$.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yeah if the RME is in the price range of your budget then just get the RME. Or maybe the Okto Research DAC 8.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/okto-dac8-stereo-dac-review.14705/

 

[gn77b]

If you want to spend that kind of money, the RME is certainly a very good option. Feel free to play around with the DSP features, it can do quite a lot including parametric EQ. It also has a maximum output level of 19dBU or 6.9Vrms wich is more than most consumer DACs and can be helpful with some more modern, lower gain amps. The headphone amp is very good and plenty powerful, but unbalanced only (not that it matters). The display is nice to look at if for nothing else but the visualization of the content being played.
I'm very happy with my older (about two years) ADI-2 Pro FS wich is quite similar in many ways.
I would currently steer clear of SMSL and maybe Gustard for pending issues, and many of the cheapest balanced DACs don't have volume control. The Topping DX7 Pro would be an option at 650$.

Yeah, an output level of more than 2V RMS which is typical for most DACs is useful, my amp reaches full power at ~2.5V RMS for instance. the RME is on my list but a bit expensive as I came to regard the DAC as the most overhyped piece of an audio chain, it must do something impressive to be worth more than maybe 300 EUR/$.

What do you mean by pending issues with the Chinese DACs? I never owned one.

 

[3125b]

I don't know a single 300$ balanced DAC with TOSLINK in, headphone amp and remote, sorry.
If you don't want balanced outputs, you could go for the Loxjie D30 for example, that would get you all that and Bluetooth for about half your budget.
The typical output level for unbalanced connections is 2V, half that of balanced connections (4V).

What do you mean by pending issues with the Chinese DACs? I never owned one.

SMSLs ESS based DACs have the third harmonic issue (wich may or may not be fixed, they sure are eerily quiet about it). YOu can still get AMK-based models, but availability and pricing are becoming worse over here (exept 4493-based models of many manufacturers, those seem to not be in too limited supply).
The Gustard X16 has a thread on this forum as well, it seems to have all manner of problems including serious damage to other equipment. But I'm not clear on the details.

 

[daftcombo]

So my DAC died a few days ago and I'm looking for a new one.

What was your DAC?

 

[gn77b]

What was your DAC?

I don't want to name the product because I have reasons to believe something weird happened in my chain when it died, like a voltage spike maybe caused by my TV. Anyway it's not a known brand and it's out of production for many years.

 

[Mynice]

I hate being pedantic, but I think you are really looking for a pre-amp with an integrated DAC and headphone amp. But really, who cares what you call it, as long as it does what you want.

You might want to consider breaking those up into two boxes: it's hard to come up with one box that does all of those things without paying a lot for it, especially the combination of remote and balanced.

The Pro-ject Pre Box S2 Digital has everything except balanced. It's a great sounding (and measuring, since this is Audioscience) DAC, altough it's tiny so you won't see the digital display from across the room. The headphone amp is nothing special. It's very good at isolating noise coming over the USB cable from your PC, which most DACs pass through.

If you want to do it on the cheap, any credible mid-range A/V receiver (Panasonic, Sony, Denon, etc) can act as a decent pre-amp, and they all have remotes, decent DACs, RCA outs, optical and coaxial inputs, and loads of other bells and whistles. Many high quality ones are routinely available used for great prices as people upgrade their 5.1 setups. If you've got the space, they look cool too. The headphone amps are usually afterthoughts, but the remotes are great. Not an audiophile approved solution, but pretty common.

 

[gn77b]

I hate being pedantic, but I think you are really looking for a pre-amp with an integrated DAC

This is the funniest thing ever because I was just telling a friend about this misfortune of mine and he suggested a preamp. OTOH who draws the line between a pre with DAC function and a "pure" DAC?

 

[Mynice]

I think once you add volume, it's a pre-amp. But again, that's just being pedantic.

The advantage to you is that you are separating out functions. You'll get more value, and better performance, if you seperate the DAC from the headphone amp. Plus like I said, amps are forever but your DAC can get out of date pretty quickly, so you will likely be replacing the DAC (or not, your choice) before the headphone amp.

The pre adds the volume and the remote. Volume control is actually tricky to get right without adding distortion so it's better left to a dedicated device.

None of this has to be expensive to sound great. But it's a lot more fun if it is.

 

[threni]

I think once you add volume, it's a pre-amp. But again, that's just being pedantic.

The advantage to you is that you are separating out functions. You'll get more value, and better performance, if you seperate the DAC from the headphone amp. Plus like I said, amps are forever but your DAC can get out of date pretty quickly, so you will likely be replacing the DAC (or not, your choice) before the headphone amp.

The pre adds the volume and the remote. Volume control is actually tricky to get right without adding distortion so it's better left to a dedicated device.

None of this has to be expensive to sound great. But it's a lot more fun if it is.

But the Topping E30 can be run in DAC mode or pre-amp mode; the difference being that in DAC mode the volume is essentially on full all the time. But...that makes it even more ampy, right? Does switching the DAC from "full volume in pre-amp mode" to "DAC mode" stop it being a pre-amp?

 

[Mynice]

Switching to "DAC Mode" probably disables the volume control, which is probably using some form of DSP since it doesn't appear to have a mechanical volume control, which means it is messing with the output from that clever little AK DAC chip in some way which some people may not want because they have a pre-amp or other form of volume control somewhere else down the line, or just because they feel that digital volume control affects the sound more than a good mechanical control.

 

[preload]

A Benchmark DAC2 or DAC3 would also do the trick. Or +1 on the RME.

 

[dmac6419]

Gustard X16, I'm loving mine

 

[Tom C]

What’s wrong with Sabaj D5?

 

[Marc v E]

I have the Topping Dx7pro which seems to have everything you want except for the price.
Looks to me you can have almost everything you want but have to make a choice.
For instance the dx3pro has xlr and rca, dac and pre + remote but no wireless for about 350 euros.
Dx7pro is more like 600.
If you can do without the xlr there is the dx7 which is cheaper; etc etc.
Topping quality and service is great ime.
It's up to you which feature you value more.

 

[Grotti]

Another vote for the RME.... I own one (the Pro version) and could not be happier. Of course it's a bit pricey but as we say here: whoever buys cheap buys twice !

 

[chelgrian]

the RME is on my list but a bit expensive as I came to regard the DAC as the most overhyped piece of an audio chain, it must do something impressive to be worth more than maybe 300 EUR/$.

As you say any competently designed implementation of a modern DAC chip chip should be transparent and Apple can do nearly as well with their 3.5mm adaptor as the high quality DACs do.

If you disregard the DAC what you are paying for with the RME is:
- First class DAC implementation
- Attention to detail in the firmware (and they still bring out updates for older boxes)
- First Class headphone amp design which can cope with 'difficult' headphones.
- First class USB implementation, I know it sound silly but USB is unpleasant and easy to get wrong so it fails to 'just work'
- Well done physical design in terms of chassis and quality of the knobs and connectors.

I bought one at the start of enforced working from home a year ago and have used it for several hours nearly every day since so I felt like I've got my monies worth out of it.

Of course exactly which features are important to you could differ substantially from me so the calculation of its value could differ substantially.