Objectivist vs. Subjectivist: The Never-Ending Debates -- Is the Sun Warm?

[restorer-john]

@DonH56 Just hit the ignore button - life's too short. Your contributions are highly valued on this site Don.

 

[Blumlein 88]

@DonH56 Just hit the ignore button - life's too short. Your contributions are highly valued on this site Don.

Yeah, what he said.

There are a few people when I see their name, I go see what they posted regardless of the topic. You'll pretty regularly learn something or see something interesting when you do. You are one of those elite people DonH56. So if you stay off the rest of the internet ok, but don't stay off of ASR please.

 

[restorer-john]

@Blumlein 88

Were you saying something? LOL. (kidding)

 

[Wes]

You know, you don't have to read the posts... This is why I need to stay off internet fora.

I am sorry you are unhappy, but it is useful to get terminology correct, even if statisticians appear overly persnickety at times.

 

[Raindog123]

counting is not measuring - discontinuous vs. continuous ... but it is useful to get terminology correct

I’ll bite... Can one measure population? Population growth rate? GDP?

 

[Roland]

People have gotten far too soft. As my father (88yo) and I say, the world needs a decent war to remind us all what is important and what isn't. And we need the decades of hope and innovation that come after a major conflict.

And if someone, somewhere gets their "feelings" hurt by me saying that, tough luck.

We have truly lost sight of what’s important when so many spend so much time and effort discussing how to measure freaking audio equipment (or not).

 

[Raindog123]

We have truly lost sight of what’s important when so many spend so much time and effort discussing how to measure freaking audio equipment (or not).

I would offer that pretty much any hobby can be characterized this ‘unimportant‘ way. Is collecting stamps or building airplane models any different? But it makes us happy and brings us together.

Most of us, especially those not in retirement, still do plenty of ‘important’ stuff too. I would like to believe I do.

 

[Ron Texas]

Around here a lot of gear gets measured. I am always mystified how some bit of gear or other (particularly electronics) will measure poorly but get raves from the subjective crowd. One great example is the Schitt Yaggi. Maybe it's BS or maybe there is something really there. I kind of think it's BS and clever marketing.

With speakers we have the Toole & Olive research. Also with speakers we have the room which may be EQ'ed away, but often isn't by most "paid" reviewers. Remember, the preference is usually established by 60 to 65% of the listeners. That is statistically significant, but leaves lots of room for differing opinions. When the LS50 debuted it wowed many listeners. It doesn't have a great preference score and it's weak on bass. I suspect what most listeners liked is in the measurements, but perhaps interpreting the data isn't so easy.

I think bit more work on baselines for what really matters needs to be done. A teardown of an excellent active speaker revealed a 48 khz DSP and an amplifier in the 75-80 sb SINAD range. That's about the same as a relatively cheap Crown XLS1502 which has crazy amounts of power, built in high pass (and other filters) and drives 2 ohm loads.

 

[tuga]

On one side we have many people failing to accept that what "sounds good" to them is not measurably stellar, and on the other there's failure to accept that many people may prefer the "presentation" of less accurate equipment. Both sides deeply entrenched, no middle ground to be seen...

 

[Newman]

B: < adds A to Ignore List... >

Outside of ASR, the more likely scenario is:-
< A reports B to the Mods who (sooner or later) ban B for argumentativeness. >

 

[JSmith]

on the other there's failure to accept that many people may prefer the "presentation" of less accurate equipment

I know what you mean, however just in relation to this part... I don't think it's a failure to accept, as there is nothing wrong with preferring a certain sound signature. However the often and understandable objection is why have that baked into a product where it can't be altered, changed or turned off? There is nothing wrong with adding some changes to taste, so I guess what people are trying to tell them is don't buy an effects box with only one effect.



JSmith

 

[tuga]

I know what you mean, however just in relation to this part... I don't think it's a failure to accept, as there is nothing wrong with preferring a certain sound signature. However the often and understandable objection is why have that baked into a product where it can't be altered, changed or turned off? There is nothing wrong with adding some changes to taste, so I guess what people are trying to tell them is don't buy an effects box with only one effect.



JSmith

I am all for the criticising of equipment performance, even with the calling out of manufacturer and of reviewer dishonesty.
Attacking people's taste or their approach to audiophilia is not OK in my book. And I see a lot of that here, unfortunately...
The patronising, scornful tone is not helpful.

Have your read an interesting old piece by Brüel & Kjær's engineer Henning Moller (famous for the B&K research/curve) called "Multidimensional Audio"?

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/multidimensionalaudio.pdf