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New mysterious Genelec monitors

Frank Dernie

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BMR?
Keith
Interesting.
I had dinner recently with an old friend who did all the modelling and prototyping the BMR as a consultant to NXT.

He told me the patent expires soon and he thinks a lot of people will use it because the technology is excellent but people wouldn’t pay the license fee.
We’ll see!
 

Ilkless

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Does Neumann also make such a fuss about innovations? Not that I know of.

Neumann is also much more conservative with driver configurations. They prefer to systematically optimise conventional formats to perfection with driver design, driver integration, waveguiding and port design. Genelec is doing the same, but with fundamentally new formats of design unseen in any meaningful commercial quantity (e.g. the likely quasi-coax here) on top of that, and demonstrating useful improvements that come from adopting these formats.
 

617

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Interesting.
I had dinner recently with an old friend who did all the modelling and prototyping the BMR as a consultant to NXT.

He told me the patent expires soon and he thinks a lot of people will use it because the technology is excellent but people wouldn’t pay the license fee.
We’ll see!
Frank, tell your friend he has a fan! The BMR is my favorite piece of audio technology of this era. Controlling break up of a disc with annular weights is genius, but being able to manufacture them and sell them for ten dollars apiece is mind boggling to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if the ridges on the Genelec mid-domes have some kind of applied element to control breakup.
 

617

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Neumann is also much more conservative with driver configurations. They prefer to systematically optimise conventional formats to perfection with driver design, driver integration, waveguiding and port design. Genelec is doing the same, but with fundamentally new formats of design unseen in any meaningful commercial quantity (e.g. the likely quasi-coax here) on top of that, and demonstrating useful improvements that come from adopting these formats.
Does Genelec have anything with cardioid radiation or are the ones just a big coaxial? Just a coaxial right?
 

Blockader

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-It has a compression driver-midwoofer coaxial sitting inside a deep horn.
-2 or 4 mid dome drivers are beam steering to control lobbing in the directivity.
-It has 2 woofers, one large midwoofer to make midbass loudness match with the loudness of the compression driver. Another driver to give speakers sub bass extension.
 

Ilkless

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Does Genelec have anything with cardioid radiation or are the ones just a big coaxial? Just a coaxial right?

Coax but significant levels of lower-midrange/midbass directivity control due to the giant waveguide/baffle for the coax, and the very calculated spacing between the oval woofers and slot loading. Baffle step is lowered but cardioid wasn't an explicit goal it seems. Cardioid functionality is achieved through the W371 only.
 

Puddingbuks

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Nice to see them continuing to leverage their tech to innovate. If w371a are $10k, these must be at least as much as w371+8361a. I’m guessing US$17000/each. :)
My guess, 10k each.
 

Puddingbuks

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-It has a compression driver-midwoofer coaxial sitting inside a deep horn.
-2 or 4 mid dome drivers are beam steering to control lobbing in the directivity.
-It has 2 woofers, one large midwoofer to make midbass loudness match with the loudness of the compression driver. Another driver to give speakers sub bass extension.
That second woofer is for the cardioid bass.
 

Spocko

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Yawn.


I say, bring on the Kabuki speakers! Genelec needs to produce something remotely attractive and compelling enough for people to buy. Currently, their chit is limited to geeks in basements, wannabe recording 'engineers' and actual recording studios. A very small market.

Go mainstream I say!
ROFL even this sneak peek is hardly something that makes me think "remotely attractive" and unlikely as it sounds, it may be straying towards even LESS attractive than the existing SKUs!
 

Spocko

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This looks like a combo of the high output S360A and the W371A. We can use the line drawings of both provided by Genelec to estimate the size of the mystery speaker, or at least the width of the front baffle.

Assuming the screws are the same as those holding the woofer basket in place for the S360A and W371A (10mm), taking the vertical length in the photograph (which is not as distorted as the horizonal by the viewing angle), and measuring the diameter of the smaller driver mid-surround, it's about 10.5 times larger, which gives 105mm or 4.1". I'd say just over three of them could fit on the front baffle, which makes it likely that the 15" front woofer we've seen in the W371A is a good approximation. It could also be the 12" back woofer, but that does not have the folds in the surround. And then the 10" woofer in the S360A has a different surround altogether.

The front baffle could then well be 400mm or 15 3/4" wide, as with the W371A. I doubt it is a size in the between the latter and the 360mm or 14 3/16" of the S360A. That would be pretty inefficient from a manufacturing perspective and lead to costly optimization work as well for the designers.

So: a high output speaker with a compression driver, with two or four 4" drivers flanking the horn, front baffle 400mm wide. It would be really strange if it sat on top of the W371A, so it's likely a floorstander that's somewhat taller with another back woofer to allow the directivity manipulation we've come to expect. The W371A is 1108mm tall or 43 5/8" (3.6'), so taking a wild guess and accomodating for the size of the horn, let's call this one 1400mm or 55.1" (4.6') tall.

Front baffle looks like a different material from the sides. Might be MDF, like the W371A. The sides look like the same finish as the S360A, so maybe those are birch panels.

@Penelinfi Do you mind making another drawing using the above?
Thanks for the thorough analysis, and based on these assumptions, I'd speculate that these would be mastering speakers for cinemas to represent the studio reference sound reproduction of large movie theaters.
 

BDE

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Nice to see some Genelec news!

Anyhow I assume those speakers will be quite expensive, so the majority will not be able or willing to pay it. Of cause it will be nice to see technically and maybe as a draft for a DIY clone.

I assume a bigger impact would be a consolidation of their portfolio of 2 way speaker (analog, smart, G-Series) and update with new/ low THD woofer (see Neumann) and increased amping.
 

Spocko

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Does Neumann also make such a fuss about innovations? Not that I know of.
Wait, you didn't know that Neumann made a fuss about the MA1 calling it a "revolutionary Automatic Monitor Alignment" system?
Ironically enough, it currently does not work with with their latest state of the art studio monitor KH120ii which features the MA1 as a selling point! Sorry, as a KH120ii future owner, I had to get that jab in. Every successful company has a marketing division whose job is to make a "fuss about innovations", there's nothing wrong with that. If anything, you risk going out of business if you make no fuss at all.
 

Spocko

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Does Genelec have anything with cardioid radiation or are the ones just a big coaxial? Just a coaxial right?
No cardioid radiation, otherwise we'd definitely know about it. I think there are only 3 true cardioid speaker companies: Kii, D&D and Geithan. I'm surprised Genelec with its software expertise doesn't have one in development.
 
OP
Pearljam5000

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:rolleyes:

I suppose there is more to a speaker than the tweeter...

Peace.

There is
But still Focal , Dynaudio , Genelec and practically anyone else update their drivers after such a long period
 

caught gesture

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Using the same tweeter for over 10 years is indeed innovative
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