New DAC for mastering

[pedrovillas]

Hello,

I’m trying to find a new DAC for my mastering studio.

One of the converters I really like is the Lynx Hilo.
I don’t really like the Universal Audio interface ones or Crane Song stuff, all AKM. So I’m staying away from AKM stuff.

Lavry Gold Savitr or Quintessence is the standard for mastering purposes as well as Bricasti MC1 nowadays.
I don’t have budget for those. 5-8k.

Would like to know if someone here could give me any input inside brands like SMSL, since are converters that I don’t know.

 

[staticV3]

What features are you looking for in terms of inputs and outputs?
Do you need clock input? What output voltage do you need?

 

[Purité Audio]

You certainly don’t need to spend anywhere near that much, have a look at the RME range, they are really superbly engineered.
Keith

 

[pedrovillas]

What features are you looking for in terms of inputs and outputs?
Do you need clock input? What output voltage do you need?

I just need 1 digital input, AES would be great and 2 XLR output.
I also don't need a monitor volume control.
Clock input is not a mandatory thing, since it could clock via AES.
I need +24dbu.

Thanks

 

[pedrovillas]

You certainly don’t need to spend anywhere near that much, have a look at the RME range, they are really superbly engineered.
Keith

I was getting away from RME because its an AKM. Every converter with AKM I have tried I hated.
Only reason.

Thanks!

 

[LTig]

I was getting away from RME because its an AKM. Every converter with AKM I have tried I hated.
Only reason.

Why do you hate DACs with AKM chips?

 

[staticV3]

I just need 1 digital input, AES would be great and 2 XLR output.
I also don't need a monitor volume control.
Clock input is not a mandatory thing, since it could clock via AES.
I need +24dbu.

Thanks

None of the Chinese brands like Topping, SMSL, Sabaj etc. offer +24dBu output afaik. The most they can do is +16.5dBu.

The okto dac8 Stereo can be ordered with custom voltage to give you +24dBu at 0dBFS input.
It's been measured here and here. It's fully transparent.

 

[Purité Audio]

Uh-huh.
I always imagined audio ‘pros’ would be more technically minded.
You and nobody else would be able to tell the difference between chips in a properly engineered implementation.
Keith

 

[JSmith]

need +24dbu.

Review and Measurements of Benchmark DAC3

This is a review and detailed measurements of Benchmark DAC3 and headphone amplifier. The unit is on kind loan from member Dallasjustice and is highly anticipated evaluation by myself and I am sure many of you. As of this writing the DAC3 retails for USD $2195 from Benchmark site. Others...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Alas, even though Benchmark documents that the unit by default outputs 24 dBu (12 volts RMS), it puts out copious more output than that.

I think the models released since run ESS after the AKM fire;

Digital to Analog Converters

Benchmark Digital to Analog Converters. Some units include stereo preamplifiers and headphone amplifiers. Certified for professional or home applications.

benchmarkmedia.com

JSmith

 

[JustJones]

SPL Diamond DA Converter and Preamplifier - Silver

DA Converter and Preamp with VOLTAiR Technology Plus Connectivity for 6 Digital Sources and External Word Clock - Silver

www.sweetwater.com

It uses AKM , input up to 32.5dBu, has AES, volume control bypass, can use external clock .

Benchmark uses ESS but it doesn't have AES. I don't see how you would hear any difference but you seem to have some reason for wanting to avoid AKM. You might find a Lynx or Bricasti used.

 

[Mnyb]

Uh-huh.
I always imagined audio ‘pros’ would be more technically minded.
You and nobody else would be able to tell the difference between chips in a properly engineered implementation.
Keith

++++1 besides that the RME ADI 2 is ESS nowadays due to the fire at AKM

 

[JayGilb]

I would suggest shopping within your budget based on the features you absolutely need and with some forward thinking about where you might go in the future.
No need to worry about the converters inside as no one will be able to hear a difference between AKM and ESS in a competently engineered converter.

 

[pedrovillas]

Uh-huh.
I always imagined audio ‘pros’ would be more technically minded.
You and nobody else would be able to tell the difference between chips in a properly engineered implementation.
Keith

Well, it depends on which audio "pros" are u referring.
First of all, Im not an electronics engineer, and I don't wanna be.
I sit and work in music 12 hours per day. And music is my focus, not the price and look of the gear.
Im not a cocky snobe listening throw a 100k system while the wife makes the dinner.
I use tools that serves my work. if doesn't work, I don't use. And the AKM I have tried doesn't work for me.

Thank you.

 

[Zensō]

And the AKM I have tried doesn't work for me.

I’m curious to know why the AKM chips don’t work for you?

 

[AnalogSteph]

And the AKM I have tried doesn't work for me.

Which model converters (complete units) specifically with what kind of DAC chips would that be? What kind of digital levels are you running? Are you using volume normalization when picking a mastering level? (Not doing so would make you very prone to falling victim to the "louder = better" effect, which would result in needlessly hot masters.)

Hitting 0 dBFS+ on a regular basis, aside from excessive periodic passband ripple, is about the only thing that might explain a difference... and even then AKM and Cirrus DACs should be better than average, as opposed to say ESS and high-end TI/BB which have a habit of hard-clipping at 0 dBFS due to ASRC. It is an area that is best avoided altogether - with DACs providing >>110 dB of dynamic range you can easily afford it. (Some models of DAC are actually providing some extra internal headroom on the DSP side.)

Note that even with all the experience in the world and no matter how good you are you will still be somewhat prone to fooling yourself. Much more so when you think that there is no way in hell this is possible, in fact. Human senses are fallible and may be influencing each other, and humans have a habit of seeing patterns where there are none.

 

[Ricardus]

And the AKM I have tried doesn't work for me.

OK, this is the 3rd request (I believe) asking why you don't like the AKM?

 

[staticV3]

Pick any of these that you can get locally with good warranty:

None of these do +24dBu, which OP needs.

 

[Music1969]

None of these do +24dBu, which OP needs.

Sorry, yes did not see that in OP but see he mentioned it in later post

 

[voodooless]

RME ADI-2 Pro FS R, as well as ADI-2/4 PRO SE would work. The latter uses ESS DACs.
Motu Ultralite MK5 may also work. Also uses ESS.

I’m also very curious why AKM DAC chips are supposed to be crap?

Lavry Gold Savitr or Quintessence is the standard for mastering purposes as well as Bricasti MC1 nowadays.

These look pretty old school and outdated by modern standards. All interfaces I mentioned will be more transparent than these, for way less money. Nevertheless, if you’d buy a second hand one, you should still get excellent sound.

 

[pedrovillas]

I’m curious to know why the AKM chips don’t work for you?

What I feel with AKM:
There is always a bright sheen, a bit mid forward and thin, also a bit grossly lo-fi.
The image is nothing but true and the low end not precise.

I have good experience with ESS, Analog Devices, Burr Brown
Thanks.