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Need advice for recording my masters

Mistercroche

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Hi all,
First thread here, i’m reading the forum quite a lot… it’s so great

Just for info:
I am working with studio one on Mac (i love it) after using samplitude, reaper and logic for years… i found studio one very well done (the best of the other 3 daw all in one) for composing (midi + note sheets) and mixing.

I have a motu 24 AO + an old motu traveler working together with smux in 24/96 for 32 output analogic, all coming from the 24 AO.

I have a presonus faderport for direct and recording faders ( very reactive and smooth)

I use All 32 output thru sub-mix into a summing mixer.

The result is the best stereo i can for recording my master into a motu M4.

I already think i can use a better converter like ferrofish for the adat smux ( i feel a little difference with the dsub output from the 24 AO) not so big but a bit muddier with a bit less of High freq) i would not use my old traveler for re-recording…

The M4 recording is clean but i don’t find a sound card that will give me a such better result that i will feel a big difference.

If it’s for 5% gain… i can do that with the input of a ferrofish pulse 16 in to my Motu 24 AO. This will give me a gain of almost an RME. Not so far from the M4…

What shood i choose (sound card) to get the best quality master for recording?

Will i feel a big difference if i’m buying an High end sound card like Neumann MT 48 ? or a RME adi 2 pro fs?

My summing mixer is also a Neumann V475-2c with very good quality sum but i can feel a difference between my direct output and my master’s recordings.

At all great aanolg’s sound enginers , How do you record yours best masters after the analog sum?

All the best
 

ZolaIII

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Find a good recording engineer and learn from him.
 
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Mistercroche

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Many thanks Zolalll, i can say that it is definitely a good advice ;) and i will…


Perhaps someone could answer a little bit longer ?


I’m not asking for secrets but for a technical point of view on the ad/da sound card i should get for a very good final master recording.

This is for my own archive, i have 20 years of music i want to remaster. I don’t want to redo all because of the wrong sound card… i want also to keep the best quality i can, in order to give some of my best material to a final studio for mastering. The more i work, more precise i will be with the sound engineer on what i can’t really get myself.

I’m doing contemporary music with orchestra and digital editing, it’s not an easy task with often 90 tracks per session.
 

Blumlein 88

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You probably aren't losing much with the M4. If you just want to be sure then the RME is close to as good a performance as is possible in terms of accurate, low distortion and low noise. Some of the Universal Audio Twin devices might be worth a look.
 

ZolaIII

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Current MOTU's are rather good in the world of audio interfaces and I don't think you need better than that (103~105 dB SINAD for ADC). You need a small isolated room to make individual or small group (playing same instrument) to perform flow less and with aid like headphones and that you record it and that's the hard part. Of course you need good mics and some things are much harder to do than others (drums, large choir and such). You can get something like E1DA Cosmos ADC (114~116 dB SINAD) and mic amp if you want performance which is enough even for budget measurement gear for individual recording and it won't cost you much.
 
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Mistercroche

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Ok thanks therefore my actual small M4 is not so bad for a stereo line input… quite correct let’s say…

I saw the neve 88m (searching for sound card for mastering… ) does anyone know this new sound card and what is the quality of ad ?

Everyone seams to be very happy with RME, i’m thinking of the adi pro with line input. but it’s not what i see in real studio for there final output. They have multiple converters, ravenna or other gear that i will comeback in AES
 

DVDdoug

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The analog-to digital converter shouldn't make any (audible) difference. All preamps generate some noise and some interfaces have better preamps than others. Depending on what you're recording the electrical noise may not be audible. Usually, acoustic noise is a worse problem.

Pro studios often have multiple preamps to choose from and some preamps may "color" (distort) the sound in a "pleasing way". It's very subtle and nobody is going to listen to a CD and say, "They used the wrong preamp".

A different microphone, or just moving the mic a little, will make a bigger difference. The digital side is of very-little concern (assuming nothing is broken).

I use All 32 output thru sub-mix into a summing mixer.
OK... But computers are hard to beat for at summing. ;) Plus, digital mixing doesn't add noise. (Analog mixers are built-around summing amplifiers. A "summing mixer" or "summing amplifier" is usually an analog mixer without faders, or EQ, etc. .)
 
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Mistercroche

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My concern is OTB with my analog system. I can of course work with the sum into the computer without noise like i’m doing until 20 years. It’s just that i kind of really like mixing in analogic into the summing mixer. I use different preamps and amplifiers for the sum passive or active and my favorite is the neumann i often use. The mix is also different from ITB, i like the focus i can give when i push a fader without thinking of my 0dB crete all the time in the ouput. In the worse case it will bring me colors and physical saturation. Therfore my question is more what should i do at the end of this chain to comeback into my computer.

You answered globally as my M4 is almost very correct. I may try to another great sound card for an AB test on the mastering.
 

ZolaIII

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LOL today DAW's use 64 bit FP precision and what ever you do there will stick transparent to the 32 bit integer. Time to let go analog. If you want to do it good you need to record separate in optimal conditions and equipment and then mix tracks together. I done it digitaly for last 20 years (from Audigy 2 Platinum Pro time) while I did it. There are no shortcuts.
 
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Mistercroche

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Hello,

I don't want to get into the eternal ITB vs. OTB debate... In terms of noise, quality, and headroom, digital processing at 32/64 bit will always be more efficient in the final output, we agree on that.

I don't need recording equipment either (I always have it done externally with sound engineers specialized in classical music). My sources are mostly superb, I just want to work on my sound and my mixes quietly at home afterwards. In my last quartet recording, the sound engineer was using a Merging Anubis with outrageous frequencies. I assure you, my sources are good. My room is treated and calibrated. My monitoring system as well. No problem on that front.

Please, I'm not looking for a Sound Blaster (even though it's better than we might think), but to discuss solid, professional, and precise equipment to re-record my analog sound into my computer in the best possible way (better than M4), with some feedback from experience on the output question after using a summing mixer.
 

ZolaIII

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Hello,

I don't want to get into the eternal ITB vs. OTB debate... In terms of noise, quality, and headroom, digital processing at 32/64 bit will always be more efficient in the final output, we agree on that.

I don't need recording equipment either (I always have it done externally with sound engineers specialized in classical music). My sources are mostly superb, I just want to work on my sound and my mixes quietly at home afterwards. In my last quartet recording, the sound engineer was using a Merging Anubis with outrageous frequencies. I assure you, my sources are good. My room is treated and calibrated. My monitoring system as well. No problem on that front.

Please, I'm not looking for a Sound Blaster (even though it's better than we might think), but to discuss solid, professional, and precise equipment to re-record my analog sound into my computer in the best possible way (better than M4), with some feedback from experience on the output question after using a summing mixer.
You where directed to the instrumental grade ADC (E1DA Cosmos) which is not intended for audio capture (has relatively low impedance), the Cosmos APU ain't for you. So consult your recording engineer and Cosmos main engineer if you like which is a member hire.
Creative is on purpose bad with ADC performance (not to get into interface market share and they won't get in theirs), reference whose for a purpose to mark the turning point of audio editing on PC.
Ditch Apple ARM architecture which isn't compatible with at least 90% ever written audio software (especially plugins),goodbye.
 
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