Multi room / zone suggestions?

[tomas21]

Looking for input on a multi-room / zone situation..

I'm looking at X4500H or X4700H to run main living room and then 2 other zones with Denon app to control all... unless I can come up with something to utilize my existing X3500H.

Current setup
Living room / Main TV/movie watching (simple due to acoutiscs of the room) (Zone 1)

TV - Samsung Plasma​

AVR - Denon X3500H (main zone and zone 2)​

Audio - VIZIO S4251W-B4 (Soundbar with sub - all that is needed in living room with natural acoustics & WAF)​

HDMI distribution to Patio & Projector in backyard - Octava HDLAN​

Remote - Harmony Elite remote (RF)​

Patio/BBQ area (Zone 2)

TV - Vizio LCD​

Speakers on house - Klipsch AW-650​

Pool/rear property (Zone 3)

TV - BenQ projector for outdoor movies (not always in use)​

Speakers rock style - Klipsch AWR-650​

Use Cases
- (Daily) Living room TV with tv audio only, no soundbar needed (w/ HDMI passthru AVR enabled, Patio and Pool off (no need for AVR usage so HDMI in pass-through mode (most of the time this will be the normal usage)
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- (Movies) Living room TV with soundbar (HDMI input to TV, fiber audio out from TV into soundbar) - patio & pool speakers off (movies)
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- Living room TV with TV audio, no soundbar & send video to backyard tv, send audio to patio and pool speakers (sports, etc)
- Living room TV with soundbar / send video to backyard tv, send audio to patio and pool speakers (sports, etc)
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- Living room off - Streaming music to patio and pool speakers (Pandora, media server, etc)
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- Living room off - Play video on Patio TV and patio and pool speakers (sports, movie, etc)
- Living room off - Play video on Patio TV and patio speakers (sports, movie, etc)
- Living room off - Play video on Patio TV and pool speakers (sports, movie, etc)
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- Living room off - Play video on Patio TV and stream music patio and pool speakers
- Living room off - Play video on Patio TV and stream music patio speakers
- Living room off - Play video on Patio TV and stream music pool speakers

Looking for ideas based on the details above.... @Trouble Maker has started me thinking of some options..

 

[Trouble Maker]

I know it feels like 3 zones, but like we were talking about, as long as you don't need to show/hear anything different in Zone 2 and 3, really it's only 2 zones. This is how I'm treating my 3 areas plan; living room, dining/kitchen and back deck. My primary target is to be able to play the same music in all zones. So if I end up with x36/37 I'll just pair up dining/kitchen and back deck, run them off of zone 2, bridge the zones and use one of those manual switches we talked about.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dual-Source-In-Wall-Speaker-Selector-AB-1-2WHITE/313688711
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_190ABA1DW/Niles-ABA-1D-White.html?tp=2997
Or maybe just get 2 external amps. They could either be sensing, 12V triggered, or if they are always on you could always install a switched outlet to turn them on and off. Now that outlet doesn't even have to be hard wired, you can always get some wifi or any other kind of wireless outlets or even inline switches if you don't want to swap any outlets out.

And bumping up to the x45/4700 get's you 3 total audio zones, but still only 2 HDMI zones. Even if you go up to the 8500 I think it still only has 2 HDMI zones. So you aren't going to get different video in all 3 zones.

Would the x3500 work in this setup for you?
Main = TV/soundbar
2nd zone = Outside Patio and Pool.
You'll need to get 2x audio and video out of that zone.

For video. I don't have any experience with these, but these are my best guesses for good solutions for video.
Use an HDMI splitter for video in zone 2. I don't know if any of these cheap passive ones work, but some of the active matrix style splitter should if the cheap ones don't. Depending on distance I might be inclined to go HDbaseT stuff to avoid any signal degradation issues. Also at a longer distance it's probably cheaper and easier to run Ethernet cable VS HDMI cable. It also seems like you can get ones that do IR transmission, which would be a nice bonus to be able to control anything back in the house while you are out at the deck/pool.

For audio
Audio at patio could be from powered zone 2, I would guess it's assignable to the Surround Back L/R.
Audio at pool could go a few ways. one idea is to use AVR main L/R since you aren't using them inside, just use one of those switches we talked about to turn it on when you want it on. But that would tie inside and pool audio together. As long as you never want to do anything different inside and out that's fine. Otherwise you could use the zone 2 line out with an inexpensive external amp or powered speakers. You mentioned the pool speakers are rocks so I would guess the amp quality is not going to effect how they sound. Or you could bridge the speakers in those 2 spaces as long as they aren't both low impedance and use the passive switch to turn the pool on and off.

 

[tomas21]

Thx.. the video distribution is handled so mainly solving for audio control in the backyard.

I would prefer to not marry the pool speakers with inside main.... maybe bridging the outdoor patio and outdoor pool rock speakers together and using a passive switch to turn pool on or off though was hoping for app controllable..

Here are specs of speakers to see if it is feasible to even bridge them as an option and how to do the ideal configuration.

AW-650 specs (outdoor patio speakers)
Frequency response 70Hz-20kHz ± 3dB
sensitivity 95dB @ 1 watt/1 meter
nominal impedance 8 ohms
crossover frequency 3400Hz
power handling 85 watts (340 watts peak)

AWR-650 specs (pool rock speakers)
Frequency response 66Hz-20kHz +/-3d
Blow frequency extension 43Hz
power handling 50W continuous / 200W peak
recommended amplifier power 100 W / 200 W peak
sensitivity 94dB @ 2.83V / 1m
nominal impedance 8 ohms compatible

Was also considering this for a solution.. for the 2 pairs of outdoor speakers
This. Buy this for $20 or this for $90. The latter may let me control each speaker's volume independently. The impedance matching circuitry will send less power to each speaker but maybe not enough to feel like we are losing a ton of volume?

 

[tomas21]

Curious what others recommend based on the two low cost solutions I have captured or strong consideration to getting X4500 or X4700.

 

[tomas21]

Any additional thoughts or input on this situation?

 

[dachiznitt]

I was in your shoes about a year ago with the same dilemma - multiple listening zones and audio sources. I ended up using Sonos Amps for 2 outdoor zones, AVR for my living room and cheaper Arylic amps for my my other indoor locations. Why? Sonos has a better UI and easier for guests to use while they are outdoors. Arylic streaming devices have the same capabilities as Sonos but not as user friendly.

A year later, I am still very happy with this setup. Hope this helps.

 

[tomas21]

Interesting.. how did you integrate your sonos amps with your avr.. if you wanted to play sound from any sources on the AVR?

 

[dachiznitt]

Interesting.. how did you integrate your sonos amps with your avr.. if you wanted to play sound from any sources on the AVR?

I didn't integrate with my avr in the living room since I stream directly to the sonos amps. I did connect my patio tv to the sonos amp. You can stream audio from any input connected to any sonos amp or sonos connect to all other zones as well.

 

[Trouble Maker]

I don't know about Tomas's exact situation, but my 3 spaces are all close enough together and will have people moving in and out of them to need the same stream time synced in all zones. Maybe I want 2 zones sometimes, inside and outside. I've heard sonos is really good, but I can't for the life of my grasp why their solution with RCA out's is so expensive. Especially when right on their site they have a product with a (small) amp and speaker for less than half of the price. I can get a 3 zone AVR for less than 3 of these things.

 

[tomas21]

I don't know about Tomas's exact situation, but my 3 spaces are all close enough together and will have people moving in and out of them to need the same stream time synced in all zones. Maybe I want 2 zones sometimes, inside and outside. I've heard sonos is really good, but I can't for the life of my grasp why their solution with RCA out's is so expensive. Especially when right on their site they have a product with a (small) amp and speaker for less than half of the price. I can get a 3 zone AVR for less than 3 of these things.

View attachment 96922

I'm in similar situation.. my 3 zones are very close and a 3 zone AVR is one solution or those cheap solutions I added in my first post towards the bottom that I can utilize in my current 2 zone AVR

 

[FrantzM]

At this point in time. December 2020...

Multi-Room/Zone = SONOS

 

[m_g_s_g]

I've heard sonos is really good, but I can't for the life of my grasp why their solution with RCA out's is so expensive.

You can try a second hand Sonos Connect Gen 2 model (> 2018); it’s still S2 compatible (and not obsolete as previous models).

At this point in time. December 2020... Multi-Room/Zone = SONOS

I tried to “switch” one of my Sonos zones to a RPi with Volumio, but after some months of problems I switched back to a second hand Sonos Connect. Now I’m back to normal. It just works.

(Note : I was not able to identify the source of my problems; it could be Volumio, my Unifi network, my too-warm-for-a-RPi4-cabinet, the power brick,...).

 

[tomas21]

So what is the ideal configuration if i kept my AVR - Denon X3500H and bought Sonos to make the system have 3 zones?

 

[dachiznitt]

So what is the ideal configuration if i kept my AVR - Denon X3500H and bought Sonos to make the system have 3 zones?

Maybe stick with your previous idea of using your AVR? Sonos is expensive but it just works and I do like the flexibility of having 3 independent zones that I can group as needed. I regularly have my patio zone streaming something on the TV with TV audio, background music in my grill area next to the patio and the kids watching a movie in the living room. Works for me but it is not cheap. I am using the previous gen hardware, which was cheaper than their current comparable offerings.

 

[LumbermanSVO]

I recently started a home remodel that will include in ceiling speakers in various rooms. I was looking for something to be as cross-platform as possible, but without the cloud connection or cost of Sonos. I stumbled upon this and will be ordering an amp soon to test out.

 

[dachiznitt]

I recently started a home remodel that will include in ceiling speakers in various rooms. I was looking for something to be as cross-platform as possible, but without the cloud connection or cost of Sonos. I stumbled upon this and will be ordering an amp soon to test out.

I just sent Tomas21 the same info as an alternative as I also have a couple of their streamers. More cost-effective for sure. Just note that it doesn't natively support Pandora, Amazon Music, or Youtube Music. You have to stream those services on another device and send audio via BT or AirPlay.

While you are remodeling, if you dont have ethernet wired within the walls, now is the time to do so. Wireless works OK but wired is much better / stable. Good luck!

 

[LumbermanSVO]

I just sent Tomas21 the same info as an alternative as I also have a couple of their streamers. More cost-effective for sure. Just note that it doesn't natively support Pandora, Amazon Music, or Youtube Music. You have to stream those services on another device and send audio via BT or AirPlay.

I personally only need Airplay because I live in the Apple eco system. I thought about using a 10+ channel amp in my server room and having an Airport Express (with wifi turned off) as the audio player for each zone.

The only reason I care about cross-platform is because I'll be renting out rooms and I'd like my tenants to be able to send audio to the speakers as well. I don't want to restrict people to Airplay only, so in my case, these fit the bill perfectly.

 

[tomas21]

Thx for all the input.. may just call it a day and get the X4500H on sale right now which should cover all my use cases and sell the X3500H

 

[daxdg]

Hi.
Sounds like I've just been through the same thought process, as I've just set up a simple multi-room, multi-zone set-up for myself, which may meet your requirements...

Initially I was looking at Sonos - but the price tag soon put me off, and I wanted to make use of the several existing amps and speakers around the house that I have amassed over the years - and I came across the Arylic line of products ( see arylic.com ). These provide a long list of options to stream from almost any source, and with a very "customer-friendly" pricing!
I'm using a combination of two products : the A50 amplifier (2x25W) for my living room speakers, and Up2Stream Mini boards as inputs for existing amps.
The A50 is small, and quite good-looking - and if you don't like it, then it's also easy to hide:

... and the Up2Stream Mini boards are TINY - half the size of a credit card, so perfect for DIY projects!
For the moment, mine is installed in a box my guitar pick-ups came in - and plugged into my home studio mixer:

Set-up was mostly straight-forward, and I'm very happy with the sound - It may not be suitable for a true audiophile hifi buff, but for most of us mere mortals, the sound is perfectly good enough. I would probably recommend the mini-boards over the A50, as you'll get more audio tuning possiblities with a 'real' amp than the A50 provides.

Everything's controlled by an App (4Stream), which connects to all the devices, and links/unlinks them as you want. Sound sources can be streaming from the phone, or a NAS, or internet streaming service, or ... (long list) - via WiFi or BlueTooth (or wires). The devices connect to the WiFi/Internet themselves, so the phone's battery is saved.

... so overall I'm very happy with my set-up, and it all cost me less in total than a single Sonos device!