Measurement and Review of Schiit BiFrost Multibit DAC

[rebbiputzmaker]

There is nothing foolish about a DAC that plays noises in addition to music. Manufacturer needs to try to replicate the problem and failing that, refund the customer.

We carried receivers from a Canadian AV company. We sold about 10 of them, and some of them started to have problems when hooked up to Comcast cable boxes in US (screen would go blank occasionally). The manufacturer at first washed its hands off of it saying they don't have Comcast in Canada so no way to fix the problem! We put pressure on them and they gave us debug versions of the box. We sent them log reports and weeks later, they still did not work. We took all the boxes back from customers and put in other ones at our expense. We then fought and after threatening legal action, the manufacturer finally agreed to give us our money back. We lost thousands of dollars and good reputation because of this. But the "customer was always right."

It doesn't matter that this issue was hard for Schiit to duplicate. They should have asked OP at Schiit expense to send the computer and DAC for them to troubleshoot. Just sitting there and saying this is not their problem is not a solution for a high-end company. Or again, offer to buy back the products.

That is totally different from playing a game or watching porn on a computer and when there are interrupt issues you blame the externally connected device. Some player software have the ability to increase buffering or load tracks into memory. You could unplug the hard drive and not have a drop-out. Much of the commentary on this topic are clearly novice user driven. Sorry.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Move some of this crap over to CA and see what people say!

So you can't respond in an informative way.

I know what gets said on CA. Many believe anything they think they hear.

 

[Wombat]

That is totally different from playing a game or watching porn on a computer and when there are interrupt issues you blame the externally connected device. Some player software have the ability to increase buffering or load tracks into memory. You could unplug the hard drive and not have a drop-out. Much of the commentary on this topic are clearly novice user driven. Sorry.

This is clearly stated in the manufacturer's user guide/instructions????

Also, you are not aware of the hardware/software configurations of the PCs used and the applications/programs in concurrent use. Let up on it!

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

The flow of data to the DAC is fine. What is happening is that the ground plane on the DAC isn't sufficiently isolated and it's coupling noise from the computer.

CA has a good sized contingent of members that aren't that competent when it comes to computer audio. I can't believe the # of threads just on NIC's and Switchs with TXCO upgraded clocks on them. Sometimes you can't fix ignorance.

If someone actually presented an grounding noise issue in a factual manor this would be a different discussion. And to a different comment you have made. Just because you do not believe in or understand using fiber to isolate a network player, or many other such advanced things people do, does not make them invalid. So anyone that does not follow your doctrine is ignorant. OK

 

[Wombat]

So you can't respond in an informative way.

I know what gets said on CA. Many believe anything they think they hear.

I think the cognitive process is called anythink goes.

 

[Blumlein 88]

If someone actually presented an grounding noise issue in a factual manor this would be a different discussion. And to a different comment you have made. Just because you do not believe in or understand using fiber to isolate a network player, or many other such advanced things people do, does not make them invalid. So anyone that does not follow your doctrine is ignorant. OK

So you continue to tell us we don't know what's important. Yet you won't commit to tell us the better way. Why so evasive?

 

[Wombat]

If someone actually presented an grounding noise issue in a factual manor this would be a different discussion. And to a different comment you have made. Just because you do not believe in or understand using fiber to isolate a network player, or many other such advanced things people do, does not make them invalid. So anyone that does not follow your doctrine is ignorant. OK

You think using fibre for signal connection isolation is an advanced technique? It is so old.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

They do indeed. They chase lay understanding of electronics, devoid of any tools to confirm what they are doing, is actually doing what they think. In many cases they make things worse, not better. But as long as they drive blind, they don't know any better.

Sorry but you are extremely myopic, not everyone out here is clueless. You are allowed to think what you want just as others are allowed to disagree with you.

I will give you some advise though. When you start discussing or suggesting that other people may have ulterior motives, or being associated with manufactures, maybe paid off etc. And you allow others here to STRONGLY post such unfounded junk, you bring into question your possible bias! It look suspect claiming clean hands while accusing other or allowing accusations of others being shills etc. Please ask Mike what he thinks.

 

[Wombat]

Sorry but you are extremely myopic, not everyone out here is clueless. You are allowed to think what you want just as others are allowed to disagree with you.

I will give you some advise though. When you start discussing or suggesting that other people may have ulterior motives, or being associated with manufactures, maybe paid off etc. And you allow others here to STRONGLY post such unfounded junk, you bring into question your possible bias! It look suspect claiming clean hands while accusing other or allowing accusations of others being shills etc. Please ask Mike what he thinks.

Mike has made it clear what he thinks and you have been given a good run here, better than ASR members get on forums that he is involved with. I really wonder why you are here as you don't contribute much to technical discussion or knowledge sharing(given your claim to 40 plus years of relevant experience) but tend to disparage a lot. Guru defense?

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

You think using fibre for signal connection isolation is an advanced technique? It is so old.

Not saying new tech, but newer as it relates to computer audio. I have many many years of experience, and try not to say something if I do not know what I am saying. Sorry if I am a bit dismayed by "internet experts" History and learning and are wonderful things. Great to read old Bell Labs stuff, Olsen's RCA stuff etc.

 

[amirm]

Sorry but you are extremely myopic, not everyone out here is clueless. You are allowed to think what you want just as others are allowed to disagree with you.

I will give you some advise though. When you start discussing or suggesting that other people may have ulterior motives, or being associated with manufactures, maybe paid off etc. And you allow others here to STRONGLY post such unfounded junk, you bring into question your possible bias! It look suspect claiming clean hands while accusing other or allowing accusations of others being shills etc. Please ask Mike what he thinks.

Everyone has bias. Question is, can they put facts forward that backs it and informs others. Your posts are all argumentative and zero information to the thread. Nothing technical has been shared. Just protests.

You have something technical to share on the topic of this thread, do. Otherwise I will be deleting your posts.

Others, please don't engage him anymore unless it is on a technical topic related to this thread.

 

[March Audio]

He is going on ignore. Simples

 

[Purité Audio]

Perhaps there should be a list of ASR measured and approved products, like Stereophile’s but Amir’s ( NWavguy ) would acutually have some validity.
I often hear listeners asking how do I know if something is well designed.
Fascinating stuff A, keep up the good work.
Keith

 

[Candlesticks]

Perhaps there should be a list of ASR measured and approved products, like Stereophile’s but Amir’s ( NWavguy ) would acutually have some validity.
I often hear listeners asking how do I know if something is well designed.
Fascinating stuff A, keep up the good work.
Keith

That comes with time. I've already written a list of products that are budget and cover a variety of use cases.

 

[GearMe]

I have to call the post from Moffat bullschiit. Amir presenting facts is confrontational? Yes, some measurements are below the audible threshold, and Amir normally states that. But some problems are audible, and they are corroborated by measurements. I’ve heard the problems myself in the 2 Bifrost units that I owned.

And...I have not in my Bimby...guess you have 'golden ears' and I don't.

In all seriousness though, apparently you are an unlucky Schiit customer and I'm am a lucky one...as multiple Schiit products have failed in your case and none have in mine. BTW...none of my iFi, Sony, Fiio, Emotiva, etc. products have failed either...such is generally the nature of decent audio products these days.


Again, DBT takes care of all of this. Comparing measurements does not, it simply says one thing measures better than another. Measurements may/may not point to other issues such as QC, etc. but these are also measurable by failure rates, etc.


The following has nothing to do with Schiit gear...merely a philosophical question to provoke thought/discussion.

Let's say, for argument sake, that a well-designed and executed DBT for 2 pieces of hardware with identical costs, failure rates, etc. is conducted and the statistical results show that a certain piece of gear is consistently favored by listeners. In addition, you participated in the DBT...and you learn post-test that you consistently favored this piece of gear as well.

However, the preferred piece of gear doesn't 'measure' as well as the other. Are you saying, that all other parameters being equal, you'd choose the gear that measured better over the one that you and the sample determined to sound better?

 

[Purité Audio]

‘Better,’ if it measures poorly it can’t be ‘better’ it might be different and that difference might be preferred, some listeners enjoy the edition of various type of distortion.
Keith

 

[Dismayed]

It makes zero sense to argue something with the inane. No person in there right mind uses a audio computer the way some have described here and blame the dac for buffer under runs or other sonic aberrations. It is the same as smashing walnuts with a hammer on the same stand a turntable rests on, and then blaming the turntable for recording skipping. You cannot make this stuff up. Really I appreciate the good laughs provided here! Oh and yes, another expert tell me I cannot possibly know that a Crown ic150 and dc300a cannot measure well and sound like crap. So hilarious.

So I shouldn't use the USB connection that Schiit built into their DAC, and I shouldn't multi-task with my computer. Yes, you may be happier over at CA. People here actually use logic in their discussions.

You're sounding like a Schiit Shill. You have presented nothing that supports your position, and you continue to imply that you can't explain things because people here are 'inane'. Sad.

 

[Dismayed]

And...I have not in my Bimby...guess you have 'golden ears' and I don't.

In all seriousness though, apparently you are an unlucky Schiit customer and I'm am a lucky one...as multiple Schiit products have failed in your case and none have in mine. BTW...none of my iFi, Sony, Fiio, Emotiva, etc. products have failed either...such is generally the nature of decent audio products these days.


Again, DBT takes care of all of this. Comparing measurements does not, it simply says one thing measures better than another. Measurements may/may not point to other issues such as QC, etc. but these are also measurable by failure rates, etc.


The following has nothing to do with Schiit gear...merely a philosophical question to provoke thought/discussion.

Let's say, for argument sake, that a well-designed and executed DBT for 2 pieces of hardware with identical costs, failure rates, etc. is conducted and the statistical results show that a certain piece of gear is consistently favored by listeners. In addition, you participated in the DBT...and you learn post-test that you consistently favored this piece of gear as well.

However, the preferred piece of gear doesn't 'measure' as well as the other. Are you saying, that all other parameters being equal, you'd choose the gear that measured better over the one that you and the sample determined to sound better?

Properly designed double blind tests are also a form of measurement. And some forms of distortion sound good - tube amplifiers are an obvious example. So I am completely open to the possibility that I, and others, may prefer gear that measure less well than other gear.

But that is different than the problems that I had with the Schiit Bifrost. Noise and garbled sound during file saves was unpleasant, and it meant that I could not multi-task on my computer if listening to music was one of my preferred tasks.

 

[svart-hvitt]

So I shouldn't use the USB connection that Schiit built into their DAC, and I shouldn't multi-task with my computer. Yes, you may be happier over at CA. People here actually use logic in their discussions.

You're sounding like a Schiit Shill. You have presented nothing that supports your position, and you continue to imply that you can't explain things because people here are 'inane'. Sad.

@Dismayed , I think you are - in our modern society - on a wrong foot. @rebbiputzmaker is entitled to have his opinion and diffuse his opinion.

In fact, modern social science is built on the foundation that we’re all transactional agents, diffusing information when we transact in the market place. Transaction price is the key here. The market is one big information processor, more capable than any human. Modern social science has become information theory and science. In such a world there is no such thing as right or wrong as per expert judgment. Measurements become obsolete.

Do you see my point? @rebbiputzmaker simply exercises and reflects what’s become state of the art social science. The fact that Schiit sells lots of units at these price points is all the evidence we need in order to judge said company and products.

If you are old school - and not accustomed to modern society where experts are not needed anymore - you are out of tune, like a computer that needs firmware update to eradicate the glitch you represent in an orderly society.

PS: Though I was a bit amused when I wrote this text, it contains some food for thought. It shows what happens when a specific social theory after a while becomes normative behaviour in society.

 

[Blumlein 88]

A societal construct built on bull SCHIIT!