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March Audio Sointuva

dualazmak

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Just for your info, "SATORI" ="悟り" is a Japanese word meaning "enlightenment"; more precisely and specifically "mental and psychological status arriving at the deepest awareness and understandings of things / matters / philosophical concepts / religious doctrines".
 
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samysound

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TW29BNWG
mms: 0.46g
sd: 9.6cm2
fs:700hz
le:0.02mH
bl:3.1Tm

T34b
mms:0.26g
sd:10.5cm2
fs:800hz
le:.0.008mH
bl:3.5tm(w/ IEC 268-5, 2nd order high-pass Butterworth filter, 2.5 kHz)

Interesting to see where they line up and where they divert.

edit: the Bliesma dome does not use magnetic fluid. Does the SB Acoustics tweeter?
The Sointuva currently uses the T34A (aluminum dome) not the T34b (Be dome). just fyi
 

Arnandsway

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Sneak-peek picture of Sointuva with a new tweeter. Not yet on the website, but Alan said should be updated soon with his measurements. Tweeter was replaced due to shortages, but the new tweeter is supposed to have better directivity.
I like the new look much better - the previous design had a tall "chin" at the bottom which I wasn't a fan of, while the new design is much more "balanced" and the premium wood cabinet just takes it to another level.
Btw the speaker will be shipped to Erin soon for testing, although it will take awhile as he has a backlog. Can't wait to see the Klippel measurements of this beauty!

View attachment 164458
This wood-finish is amazing, what kind of veneer or wood is this?
 

f1shb0n3

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Received some more info about the speaker - tweeter is indeed SB Acoustics TW29BNWG-4 and there are some preliminary free field measurements made with the following note from Alan:
"Please note that the small lift in response above 9kHz has already been corrected by a crossover tweak. Otherwise its essentially +- 1.5dB. Listening window is very close to the on axis. As with the previous version F3 is around 45Hz and F6 around 38 Hz. In room the bass extends below 30Hz."

image003.png


image004.png


The Klippel would the final arbiter, but I like what I see here so far.
 

dougi

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Whoa that new tweeter is expensive. Retail A$679 in Alan's money. It would be interesting to see full measurements as the native response of the tweeter looks a bit tricky. (Drooping response and narrow beamwidth in lower-treble, due to waveguide?)


tw29bnwg-4_graph.jpg


Contrast with an old-fashioned dome like the venerable D2010 19mm:

1636577777632.png
 

dualazmak

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Hello OP @Mutsu and friends,

Even though we are now somewhat excited about the new high-range driver of Sointuva speaker, during the past a few months, I have been rather interested in Sointuva's reported/reviewed "clear, tight, rigid, solid, speedy, fast-transient" bass-low sound given by the 6.5" (16.5 cm) low-range drivers, Purifi PTT6.5X04-NFA-01, one in the front and two in the back panel.

I am just considering, therefore, possibility of adding pair of Sointuva "as such an excellent woofer" in my multichannel multi-driver (multi-way) multi-amplifier stereo system (please find the latest setup here/post#416 and here/post#636); Sointuva (as woofer) will be driven by a dedicated amplifier in the clearly crossed-over 50 Hz- 500 Hz Fq range, simultaneously and/or alternatively with Yamaha NS-1000's 30 cm (11.8") cone woofer (JA-3058).

I can continue using the still amazingly excellent (the best ever?) vacuum vapor deposited Yamaha 8.8 cm (3.5") Beryllium midrange dome driver (JA-0801) and the 3 cm (1.8") Yamaha Beryllium tweeter (JA-0513, also vacuum vapor deposited); in my setup, I also have metal horn super tweeters Fostex T925A as well as the big/heavy L&R sub-woofers, Yamaha YST-SW1000 covering 15 Hz - 50 Hz with variable/adjustable gain.

(Of course, it should be a great fun and interests comparing the Yamaha's vapor-deposited Beryllium sound with SATORI TW29BNG-4 Beryllium sound in Sointuva, though.)

My idea here is that I may use Sointuva (as woofer) and/or Yamaha's 30 cm woofer depending on the nature of the music source, e.g. Sointuva (as woofer) mainly for jazz and pops, Yamaha's 30 cm woofer mainly for classical, and so on.

This idea came to me also from our recent intensive audio listening sessions (shared here) using my present setup attended by one of my audio enthu friends who is a really serious jazz fanatic; at the end of our 8-hour audio listening session, he said; "Your present setup is really amazing and wonderful as a whole giving best ranked HiFi sound I ever heard. For your beloved classical music, the setup seems to be just perfect, I feel."

Then he continued; "For my beloved jazz music, especially rather authentic and exciting American jazz sessions, however, I would be a little bit happier if the sound by woofers, 50 Hz - 500 Hz, could be very slightly tighter, since I always love sharp drum sound, loud and transient kick drums."

My still just on-paper (on-computer) physical alignment simulations are as follows;
WS002580.JPG


WS002581.JPG


Edit:
I will further discuss (and actually pursue?) this idea in my multichannel multi-amplifier stereo project thread; I placed a new post there on this idea.
 
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Doodski

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"For my beloved jazz music, especially rather authentic and exciting American jazz sessions, however, I would be a little bit happier if the sound by woofers, 50 Hz - 500 Hz, could be very slightly tighter, since I always love sharp drum sound, loud and transient kick drums."
I think simultaneously operating the Yamahas and the Sointuvas together will provide beaucoup bass response. I have combined many different pairs of speakers in sound rooms and the results where sometimes very impressive. It's more of the design style that you have where many options provide more adjustable sound and capability for all music types.
 

restorer-john

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Because of the "unusual" concept, it would have been interesting if the "old" version of the speaker had been measured by @hardisj.
Wasn't that actually planned?

Apparently so, but clearly, it never happened.

And now we have a complete and total about-face in design, again with no verifiable measurements, no corroboration, or actually anything remotely useful. And the website only shows the "old" design with no mention of the complete paradigm shift to the Satori.

The Satori specs are a bit of a mess. Tell me, where does it actually "excel", apart from cost?

Just screw in a different tweeter and call it done, I say. :facepalm:
 

dualazmak

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Thank you for your quick and impressive comment!

If I would add Sointuva in my setup, it should be quite easy for me to operate Sointuvas (as woofer) and Yamaha 30 cm woofers, simultaneously or alternatively, as you know well about my system setup where Accuphase E-460 and Yamaha A-S3000 are powerful amps both have SP-A and SP-B speaker level outputs. If the results would be really nice as you pointed, then even I would add another Yamaha A-S3000 (or A-S3200) enabling fully independent gain control for Sointuvas and Yamaha woofers; it should be great fun and interests...

I assume not only Sointuba but also Fyne Audio F-701 as well as KEF Q350 could be the candidate in this idea. Do you have any other SP suggestions? (please be careful about the physical alignment; they should sit on my sub-woofers Yamaha YST-SW1000, and the height should be less than ca. 60 cm, preferably less than 50 cm !!).

I will further discuss (and actually pursue?) this idea in my multichannel multi-amplifier stereo project thread; I will soon have a new post there on this idea, and your participation there will be highly appreciated.
 
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restorer-john

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I think simultaneously operating the Yamahas and the Sointuvas together will provide beaucoup bass response. I have combined many different pairs of speakers in sound rooms and the results where sometimes very impressive. It's more of the design style that you have where many options provide more adjustable sound and capability for all music types.

Like this?

1636634332475.png
 

restorer-john

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The old "wall of sound"

It looks like someone at the dump created that wall of sound as an artwork.

This one was a work of art. Mount Recyclemore, erected in Cornwall prior to the world leaders' G7 summit to draw attention to e-waste.

mount recyclemore.png
 
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Holmz

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I got a demo of the speakers yesterday.
I do not know what to think, as the room was not mine, sighted listening, etc.

So what follows is heavy on the subjective side.

T/he first thing was the bass. I was expecting good bass, for the measurements I saw, but it still raised an eyebrow like Spock does occasionally.
(<edit> because the base was way more than I thought possible)

Towards the end I thought, “I bet these are louder than I suspect.”… Mostly since having a conversation was challenging.
I was ~3 meter away, or maybe 14‘.

“Sho-nuf” when I busted out the ipad and the NIOHA app, it was 85 to 102 dB(A)… but as usual with low distortion speakers, they have a quietness to them.

They were being pushed with a 125w/ch class-D and it was all pretty dm’d good with it streaming the usual stuff I listen to and some extras thrown in.

I expected to be impressed, as the drivers are something that I am heavily biased towards.
And I left not being disappointed.

I am not sure how to compare them to other speakers given the room, my audio-memory, etc… but it was all pretty pleasant.
Of course it helped have Doug MacLeod queued up as the opening track, which I am used to, is recorded well. Etc.


I have also been looking a Buckeye amps for a HT setup, but as the gear will be sitting in view in a living room (in a modest 5.2 system)… Those cases make for an easy choice in Australia to stop looking at the overseas offerings (Nord, VTV, Buckeye, etc…)

My impression was that all seems like a pretty lineup.
I‘ll like start with DAC and headphone amp, as youngest daughter needs a modest listening system. (for drowning would coworkers doing research work)
But the speakers do have me thinking.
 
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dualazmak

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...
The first thing was the bass. I was expecting good bass, for the measurements I saw, but it still raised an eyebrow like Spock does occasionally.
...

Thank you for your subjective impressions. Even though I have not yet auditioned Sointuva, this line is a little bit regrettable for me since I just consider implementation of Sointuva as woofers in my multichannel multi-amplifier setup; the idea was shared in my above post #167.

I may have several alternative candidate SPs as woofers, as shared here in my remote thread. I would highly appreciate any of your possible suggestions regarding such rather compact SPs having "vivid transient sound" in 50 Hz - 500 Hz.

This thread is for Sointuva; let's discuss further, therefore, on this specific idea and topic there, in my multichannel multi-amplifier thread.
 

Holmz

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If I lived alone, or had the space for a dedicated listening room then my options would have increased.

It is likely cheaper to get the speakers, than the “live alone” option. :confused:

Thank you for your subjective impressions. Even though I have not yet auditioned Sointuva, this line is a little bit regrettable for me since I just consider implementation of Sointuva as woofers in my multichannel multi-amplifier setup; the idea was shared in my above post #167.

I may have several alternative candidate SPs as woofers, as shared here in my remote thread. I would highly appreciate any of your possible suggestions regarding such rather compact SPs having "vivid transient sound" in 50 Hz - 500 Hz.

This thread is for Sointuva; let's discuss further, therefore, on this specific idea and topic there, in my multichannel multi-amplifier thread.

Let me rephrase it…
I was like “WTF - how are these little things giving so much bass…”

It would probably be thin in a home theatre set up, but they were fast, tight, and more than enough.
(Probably around 40-Hz or a bit under.)
If one listened to organ music, or a lot of rap, then maybe one would need a sub.

I would suggest you await the objective analysis and I believe that a set is “headed to a Klippel machine near you”. Then you will have a more informed basis for action. If not, then my suggestion is hold off on a sub unless maybe it is a very large room.
The things were doing very well on 125w/channel, and I personally do not thing I would need more, and I have floor standing speaker and a sub with my old system.

Hello OP @Mutsu and friends,

Even though we are now somewhat excited about the new high-range driver of Sointuva speaker, during the past a few months, I have been rather interested in Sointuva's reported/reviewed "clear, tight, rigid, solid, speedy, fast-transient" bass-low sound given by the 6.5" (16.5 cm) low-range drivers, Purifi PTT6.5X04-NFA-01, one in the front and two in the back panel.

I am just considering, therefore, possibility of adding pair of Sointuva "as such an excellent woofer" in my multichannel multi-driver (multi-way) multi-amplifier stereo system (please find the latest setup here/post#416 and here/post#636); Sointuva (as woofer) will be driven by a dedicated amplifier in the clearly crossed-over 50 Hz- 500 Hz Fq range, simultaneously and/or alternatively with Yamaha NS-1000's 30 cm (11.8") corn woofer (JA-3058).….

^That^ is a lot of speakers.

If you are not using them as a 2 way, then maybe you could just get them without the tweeter and without the passive crossover?
I would still suggest that you await the Klippel test.

  • Do you know how low in frequency you need to go?
  • … and also how high in frequency?
  • How are you doing crossovers in your multi amp system? MiniDSP?

    There is really only a single Purifi woofer in the box, on the back are a couple of Purifi “Passive Radiators” (PRs).
    I like PRs, but if you excite them below the tuning freqs then they unload just like a port does.


There are a hundred ways to skin a cat.
  • If it was rock-n-rap, then the usual solution is 12 or 15” subs
    • But then one often has blending and harmonics and resonances are often a problem.
  • A more musical system might be using 2 or 3 woofers like a ScanSpeak 18wu, which would probably be “the next best woofer/mid-bass”, and would do light sub duty…
    • With “light sub duty” being defined as probably ~30 Hz or above, but well into the hundreds of Hz.
  • And for more bass than the Sointuva, then maybe a pair of the Purifi woofers and 3-4 of the PRs.
    • You would get 3dB more bass, and maybe they could be tuned lower with the PRs.

I was seriously thinking a few months back of making some surround speakers using the Purifi gear, the Purifi passive XO and the DIY instructions. I onlyd hear about the Sointuva a little over a week ago.
After seeing them I can see I would have made a bunch of rookie mistakes like the rounding of the edges of the cabinet, and probably the wrong tweeter. And the cost of a full Sonituva is not too much more than a box of part from Madisound, and there is no engineering traps to fall into.

They are basically what I was thinking of doing, just without any of the mistakes that I would have made… which I did not think even existed two weeks ago.

In and case I decided a few months back that the risk of hosing up the cabinets was too high and got some second hand surrounds., and also a secondhand center channel For a 5.3 HT and 2.1 combined system.

If I missed anything, then ask away while the memory is fresh, and before the objective data arrives.
 

Matias

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I have also been looking a Buckeye amps for a HT setup, but as the gear will be sitting in view in a living room (in a modest 5.2 system)…
I strongly recommend this.
 

Holmz

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I strongly recommend this.

My take Apollon:
  • I already have a stereo amp, so I need only a Center channel and a two channel
    • I am planning on going XLR back nearer the LR/RR.
  • There is no pnone number and I am not sure what country they are made in.
  • They use the Hypex cores.
  • These may be better for a multichannel, but again, I will probably run XLRs to the back.

With the March:
  • I think that the cases look better.
    • And the guts for all these are Hypex and/or Purifi
  • They are in Australia, so it is a no brainer local option for Au and Nz residents.
  • There is a phone number.
  • They use Purifi cores
    • which are better than the Hypex (on paper) probably doesn’t matter as both are better than is required.
That is what I am thinking… But I appreciate the input.
 
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