Making further progress, TOPPING’s new flagship amplifier will be launched in late May!

[pavlo_y0l0s]

I tried replying to the post that was talking about b200 amp

ok, for 100w
100W into 4 ohms => sqrt( 100*4 ) = 20Vrms or 20/4 = 5 Amps

 

[antcollinet]

I tried replying to the post that was talking about b200 amp

ok, for 100w
100W into 4 ohms => sqrt( 100*4 ) = 20Vrms or 20/4 = 5 Amps

If you are not replying to the post directly above yours, then you need to quote the one you are replying to (click the reply link, or select relevant part of the text and click the reply button that pops up) otherwise no-one can tell what you are referring to.

 

[prerich]

Thats garbage lol, never seen other manufacturers quote their figures from such a low wattage. It is normally done at 1Khz @ rated power and weighting which is putting your thumb on the scales also lol.

Mcintosh of all companies lies through their ass constantly and don’t remotely resemble what the company was back in the day.

A lot of older power amps struggle with distortion at such low power figures. Even 1W can be difficult due to noise floor etc. I agree that 5W isn’t industry standard but more relevant for the real world than rating distortion at max power.

McIntosh MC 427 Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the McIntosh MC 427 (MC427) stereo car audio amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member. It has been discontinued but used ones go for about US $500. Not much to distinguish the amplifier from other car amps other than the bright blue logo...

www.audiosciencereview.com

McIntosh MC462 Stereo Amplifier Review (by ErinsAudioCorner.com)

does anyone truly believe that though? i mean i want to... but...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Just a couple of samples that show that McIntosh is pretty upfront and conservative with their ratings and are within the realm of honesty. I know little about their tube gear, but their SS gear is on point and the amps supply plenty of headroom.

 

[welwynnick]

I noticed a pattern in the specs. There are several different noise figures (sic) for mono/stereo, high/low gain, B200/LA90, but there's a strange consistency between them.

Take any gain figure in dB, divide by 5.5, and you get very close to the noise in uV - and that's the same for both amps.

When the B100 came out, I wondered if that continued the pattern in performance. I've been meaning to make this post for ages and finally got the time.
I charted all the best power amps, but it was difficult to see correlations, partly because Topping were so far ahead of everyone else.

I focussed on Topping amps, and tried to use ASR data, but it wasn't as complete as the Topping specs which I used instead. I used output voltage and AP measured noise to calculate the SNR .

The suffix after the model number is the approximate gain in that particular condition.

There's a good correlation between all amps - LA90, B100 & B200. Reducing the gain by 10dB typically improves SNR by around 5dB, and that's where the B100's 151dB SNR comes from. Unfortunately the gain has to come from somewhere, and it will have to paid by the preamp performance instead.

I think all this makes the B200 look very good. Topping claim 200W for both 8 and 4 ohms, but the latter is probably closer to 300W going by the similarities with the LA90 bridged, and Amir's test of the LA90 bridged , and it goes off the scale on Topping's chart.

 

[EddNog]

Still wondering when the B200 review will hit.

-Ed

 

[babadono]

My review...they sound wonderful

 

[Usatencu]

My review...they sound wonderful

Tell us more! I m also interested to buy b200. From wich amp you made upgrade? I have topping pa7 class d with kef r3 meta. I want to try this class ab monoblocks with more power

 

[babadono]

I use them to drive the LF section of my Klipsch Jubilees...previously used a Crown K2 (way power overkill) a Crown D75(in bridge, refurbished by me) and a Boulder 500. These B200s just fill the bill perfectly. The mids and tweets are handled by 4 Topping LA90 Ds in bridge. The volume controls on LA90s come in handy to match the mid and highs to the woofers. The Crown K2 is relegated to subwoofer duty which it excels at. The D75s are now used to drive surrounds in the HT. The Boulder has been freed up to serve in a secondary living room system.

 

[babadono]

Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

Anyway, I was able to find the data for the SMSL D1se2: Output Impedance: XLR 207 Ohm: RCA 142 Ohm. Should be ok. Still no difference even with a (rare) high dac output impedance - as long as the reactive impedance of the load (including interconnect) is sufficiently high not to cause...

audiosciencereview.com

I posted pics in the LA90 thread

 

[misterdog]

My review...they sound wonderful

As wonderful, or more wonderful than Benchmark AHB2 though ??

 

[babadono]

I don't have $18,000+ to find out

 

[totti1965]

New video out there:
This is the subjectivist of all subjectivists - besides the nonsense he is talking about nested feedback timing problems.
Didn’t he read Bruno Putzeys f-word articles??? I think Bruno’s information is a tiny bit more valuable!

https://linearaudio.net/sites/linearaudio.net/files/volume1bp.pdf

Life on the Edge - A Personal Perspective on the Past, Present, and Future of Class D Audio Amplifiers - HomeTheaterHifi.com

The past quarter century of class D developments look strikingly different when seen through the eyes of the audio consumer and through...

hometheaterhifi.com

 

[misterdog]

Marked down because no trigger cable is included.

 

[totti1965]

Marked down because no trigger cable is included.

I think, he has heard, what he has expected to hear.
For him, feedback is an ugly thing, because he didn’t understand, that it makes an amp „quicker“ and not „slower“ and also better in rising times, bandwith and the whole time domain.
His expectation became reality in his brain, because the differences in sound are tiny, of course.
So, for him, the B200 sounded slow, muffled, sluggish……

It is, like Bruno sayed: They only read the Maty Otala Articles in 1973 half!

Imagine what he would have heared, if he had done a proper unbiased Double Blind Test with B200 and the top Class-D-Constructions of Bruno Putzeys or the Benchmark AHB2 included…..
Yes, also the Benchmark is as extremely good as it is, BECAUSE of Feedback and not DESPITE Feedback.
And the B200 are even more than 40% more powerful, more linear and 2 x „cleaner“ in the high frequency range,
because time stood not still and the Benchmark Construction has begun in 2008.

 

[LKA]

B200 5W/4R THD10 0.00035% is not groundbreaking, just average

 

[misterdog]

B200 5W/4R THD10 0.00035% is not groundbreaking, just average

SNR 129 v 145

Multitone 20dB better so a good 'average'.

Benchmark AHB2 Review (Updated Measurements)

Back in 2019, I reviewed the Benchmark AHB2 Stereo Amplifier. I received a second sample from a kind member to update the measurements. Originally the AHB2 cost $3000 but now, $3,500. As you see, it is a compact but very nice looking amplifier. I appreciate the clipping indicator which seemed...

www.audiosciencereview.com

B200 - TOPPING AUDIO

www.toppingaudio.com

 

[Tovarich007]

Anyway, with all these amps, we're reaching the theorical limits of what it is possible, with distorsion rates and SNR far more better than what the best human ears can perceive.

BTW, in his recent second test of the Benchmark, ASR has measured a very slightly lesser Sinad than with the first unit reviewed 4 years ago. The difference is so tiny at such levels that's probaly more the effect of a tiny difference in the mesaurement tool, or a small pertubation in the measuremnt process or a small variation in the power line itself. Totally unsignificant. That's also the limits of SINAD tests. Above some points (say 105/110) the result is unsignificant too, beyond human perception.

So, speak of progress at such levels of THD, Sinad, by comparing the pure measurments of these Topping, Ncore, Benchmarks and so, that's a bit irrelevant IMO.

More importantly, is it absolutely certain that a high negative feedback level is absolutely unharmful, in any conditions, in real world with any speaker, any power line ?
That's what Putzeys think and wrote, I've read him and I was impressed. Of course, he's a very good electronician, his class D amps are good, so I'm inclined to believe him until someone could prove the contrary, but is the controversy about negative feedback definitely over among other seasoned and competent experts ?

We're not listening to amps hooked at measurements tools, but at amps connected to real speakers with sometimes complex behaviour and real complex and changing soundtracks.
I am more an objectivist than a subjectivist and I don't believe in audiophile BS... But I want to be sure that science has definitely proven the benifits or negative feedback.

 

[misterdog]

You forgot the line about your loudspeakers having significanly more distortion.

 

[Bleib]

You forgot the line about your loudspeakers having significanly more distortion.

As well as frequency problems, dynamic compression, dispersion problems, group delay etc

 

[totti1965]

More importantly, is it absolutely certain that a high negative feedback level is absolutely unharmful, in any conditions, in real world with any speaker, any power line ?

If
a) the output impedance is sufficiently low across all (audible) frequencies and
b) the intermodulation distortion (32 band) does not increase across the audio band and is low
and
c) the difficult 19 kHz / 20 kHz test shows no side bands beyond - let's say - 95 dB also, then YES!

The three Topping devices LA90 Discrete, B100 and B200 are extremely (!) good at point a) and undisputedly hold the world record for power amplifiers at points b) and c).

Would be nice to see the B200 on @amirm s test bench and to hear, what our chief fun officer would feel subjectively about the B200 connected with his reference stuff in his livingroom……
I don’t think that we would hear the words sluggish or muffeld. More something like: „It’s great to live in these times, where you can buy real State Of The Art Stuff for $1,200 / pair instead of $120,000 / pair“