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Magnepan protective covers

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#1
Just got my 1.7i and enjoying them! now i am looking at options for a protective slip-on cover for them. Why? some reasons include:

1. they are white and i want to protect them from sun damage or discoloration.
2. also want to protect them from odors and what not when cooking. for when i have them out in the living room which is next to the kitchen.
3. when i have visitors stay over and especially ones that have kids..
4. when i eventually get a cat.

found a place that will make them but they aren’t cheap. theybalso dont have an option to use zippers.

https://www.digitaldeckcovers.com/fabric-details

short of using the included clear plastic bags they come in or 2 black garage bags taped together into a super long one, what are better options? went to a fabric store and material costs for a yard is like $15-40+ depending on material, and i have no sowing machine or experience.
 

Sancus

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#2
For what it's worth, the covers("socks") they come with are replaceable with a bit of work and Magnepan will send you a replacement for like $100-150, I forget.
 

DonH56

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#3
Keeping sunlight, and cats, off the panels is a good idea. sunlight can cause the adhesive and panels themselves to become brittle and fail over time.

Not sure anything will block orders, but for decades I used black garbage bags as slipcovers (yes, two taped together as you said). For a while SWMBO did not like the black, but I wanted it to block the sun, so I put white bags over the black as a compromise. I was worried that fabric would not block UV.

For a rather novel idea, one of our customers (back in the dark ages when I worked for a dealer) actually attached a darkening blind to the top of his Maggies so he could pull it down in front of his panels when they were not in use. I don't remember how he kept it from rattling when rolled up, but he made a nice little box for the blind that looked like part of the speaker.
 
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Thread Starter #4
when i got my 1.7i about a week ago, they came in clear plastic bags and had metal strips on the front center of each panel, attached by magnets inside the panels, i am guessing. because those metal strips clung to the magnets behind the panels, the cloth was pushed down along the center of the panels. once the strips were removed the cloth under the metal strips stuck to the inside of the panel. instructions said if that happens gently take some tape and stick on the affected areas and gently pull outwards.. this seemed to unstick the cloth and pop it out to normal positon.

does this cause any damage to the panels or adhesive’s longevity?

also, does Magnepan ship them this way to protect something in the panel near the center?

i might just use black garbage bags and make some cheap covers rather than pay $170+ for custom covers.
 

Sancus

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#5
does this cause any damage to the panels or adhesive’s longevity?

also, does Magnepan ship them this way to protect something in the panel near the center?
They ship them that way because they're prone to delamination. Magnepans are a bunch of thin coils glued down to mylar, which is the radiating surface. This isn't an especially durable way to build a speaker, lots of things(including time, humidity, shaking during shipping, etc) cause the wires to start coming loose.

They have changed adhesive a number of times in attempts to minimize the problem, and the strips seem to be a new measure(they didn't exist back in 2014, but showed up in 2018 at least). Some people will say that delamination is no longer an issue, but it absolutely is. I had one of mine delaminate(either due to transportation or simple time) in only about 4 years. A lot of people probably don't even notice it, in my case the only symptom was panel resonance(buzzing) around ~20-70hz in the affected speaker. I'd believe they've reduced the problem over the years, but it definitely still happens.
 
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Thread Starter #6
They ship them that way because they're prone to delamination. Magnepans are a bunch of thin coils glued down to mylar, which is the radiating surface. This isn't an especially durable way to build a speaker, lots of things(including time, humidity, shaking during shipping, etc) cause the wires to start coming loose.

They have changed adhesive a number of times in attempts to minimize the problem, and the strips seem to be a new measure(they didn't exist back in 2014, but showed up in 2018 at least). Some people will say that delamination is no longer an issue, but it absolutely is. I had one of mine delaminate(either due to transportation or simple time) in only about 4 years. A lot of people probably don't even notice it, in my case the only symptom was panel resonance(buzzing) around ~20-70hz in the affected speaker. I'd believe they've reduced the problem over the years, but it definitely still happens.

would the sound quality be noticeably changed due to delamination? you noted buzzing as your only symopto,.

how can i visually tell if there is delamination happening?

do owners have to send back to Magnepan for repair or reglue the thin coils themselves?

what preventative measures can i take to reduce likelihood of delamination? monitor ambient temperature and humidity? avoid working the speakers/coils past a certain threshold?

i like the sound and the speakers and have had them for over a week now. hoping to keep and enjoy for at least 10 years, if not longer.

any other long time or recent maggie owners have this issue? any that avoided this problem so far? is it more common on larger panels?
 

Sancus

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#7
would the sound quality be noticeably changed due to delamination? you noted buzzing as your only symopto,.

how can i visually tell if there is delamination happening?

do owners have to send back to Magnepan for repair or reglue the thin coils themselves?

what preventative measures can i take to reduce likelihood of delamination? monitor ambient temperature and humidity? avoid working the speakers/coils past a certain threshold?

i like the sound and the speakers and have had them for over a week now. hoping to keep and enjoy for at least 10 years, if not longer.

any other long time or recent maggie owners have this issue? any that avoided this problem so far? is it more common on larger panels?
You can't visually tell without removing the socks which requires removing the trim and staples, as far as I know. Buzzing does affect the sound quality of course, but whether you can tell or not depends on how much you're paying attention, the frequencies affected, and the music you're listening to. In my case it was only obvious when certain frequencies were dominant. It would be fairly easy to test for the same symptom using a frequency generator(be careful with volume). It's not subtle.

You can fix it yourself, I believe Magnepan will supply a repair kit, however you have to remove the socks/trim, and then glue down the wires again and leave it to cure. Probably can be done in a weekend if you have the space, you'd want to do it in a garage or outside though, not practical for me living in an apartment so I didn't even try.

You can ship them back for repair and it will be a couple hundred dollars outside of warranty probably, one thing I will say is that they're easy to deal with and they don't seem to be looking to make any kind of profit on repairs, I suspect they're just covering their costs.

I couldn't tell you if there's any way to prevent it, I suspect "don't move house or ship the speakers" any more than necessary would be one thing.
 

DonH56

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#8
My old delamination test was pink noise at moderate volume to exercise the full frequency spectrum. That is available as a test signal in many AVRs/AVPs these days. I used to have a little box with a pink-noise generator built in to take to customers' and friends' places -- was pretty useful to be able to plug in and listen for things (not just delamination). That was before AVRs and PCs that would do it for you.

My 30-year-old MG-IIIa's had no delamination when I put them back in storage a couple of years ago. Keeping them out of sunlight and not constantly overdriving them helps. Sunlight was a big killer in years gone by; not sure how much better the new adhesives are, but UV in general is pretty hard on adhesives. One reason for my black bag covers.

The new patterned "quasi-ribbon" panels should be less susceptible to delamination but the jury's still out... Wires IME are more susceptible than the foil traces, presumably due to greater contact area for the adhesive and greater flexibility of the foil itself.

Speaking of covers, be gentle and slow putting them on and off. A friend of mine (not me, thankfully) took out his ribbon tweeters by pulling the bag on too quickly (just yanked it down -- pretty sure they blow when he put it on and not when he pulled it off).

FWIWFM - Don
 

Sancus

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The new patterned "quasi-ribbon" panels should be less susceptible to delamination but the jury's still out... Wires IME are more susceptible than the foil traces, presumably due to greater contact area for the adhesive and greater flexibility of the foil itself.
Ah you're right it is foil "tape" nowadays, not wires. I haven't seen a photo of it, but there is a diagram on their site. One of my 1.7s delaminated in 4 years' time, so it's definitely still possible, but I don't know how common it is. I moved a fairly long distance(California to BC) during that time, so it is possible that handling during the move caused the issue, but no way to be sure, as I didn't notice it until some time after.
 

DonH56

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Ah you're right it is foil "tape" nowadays, not wires. I haven't seen a photo of it, but there is a diagram on their site. One of my 1.7s delaminated in 4 years' time, so it's definitely still possible, but I don't know how common it is. I moved a fairly long distance(California to BC) during that time, so it is possible that handling during the move caused the issue, but no way to be sure, as I didn't notice it until some time after.
I tend to doubt it was handling. In operation they are flexed 20 to 20,000 times a second, much more than normal handling will do. The main handling problems I saw were people blowing the ribbon tweeters for all sorts of reasons, some reasonable, some less so, and some that reminded me of Heinlein's line "never underestimate the power of human stupidity". It is possible exposure to extreme cold and/or temperature changes accelerated the process, but the company is in Minnesota after all. I've lived there, it gets cold. Maybe not Canada cold, but it hit something like 60 below (degF) the last year I was there. :) Chances are it was just their time. I did hear there was a run of bad panels at one point, maybe a bad run of glue or slip-up in manufacture.
 
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Thread Starter #11
My old delamination test was pink noise at moderate volume to exercise the full frequency spectrum. That is available as a test signal in many AVRs/AVPs these days. I used to have a little box with a pink-noise generator built in to take to customers' and friends' places -- was pretty useful to be able to plug in and listen for things (not just delamination). That was before AVRs and PCs that would do it for you.

My 30-year-old MG-IIIa's had no delamination when I put them back in storage a couple of years ago. Keeping them out of sunlight and not constantly overdriving them helps. Sunlight was a big killer in years gone by; not sure how much better the new adhesives are, but UV in general is pretty hard on adhesives. One reason for my black bag covers.

The new patterned "quasi-ribbon" panels should be less susceptible to delamination but the jury's still out... Wires IME are more susceptible than the foil traces, presumably due to greater contact area for the adhesive and greater flexibility of the foil itself.

Speaking of covers, be gentle and slow putting them on and off. A friend of mine (not me, thankfully) took out his ribbon tweeters by pulling the bag on too quickly (just yanked it down -- pretty sure they blow when he put it on and not when he pulled it off).

FWIWFM - Don
what would be considered overdriving them? a certain db level?
 

DonH56

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#12
what would be considered overdriving them? a certain db level?
It depends on the speaker model, distance to them, and such. What works just fine five feet away in a typical room may require 2x to 4x the power when you are ten feet away in a larger room with more damping. Since I have no experience with the newer models I have no idea their power limits. If you ever hear rattling due to the panels bottoming out you are definitely overdriving them, or if you hear a lot of distortion (easy in the upper frequencies, an obnoxious harsh noisy sound, but harder to hear in the bass where more damage could be done).

Theoretically the wider foil traces should dissipate heat better but that also depends upon a lot of things, like the type and amount of adhesive over them, etc. And course the foil might not be as conductive and thus dissipate more heat than wires. Etc.
 

LTig

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#13
would the sound quality be noticeably changed due to delamination? you noted buzzing as your only symopto,.
Yep, same happened with my prior MG 1.6. Play bass notes and you notice a flapping sound.
how can i visually tell if there is delamination happening?
You have to take away the socks to see it. In my case the (round) wires at the upper and lower end of the panel (where they do the 180 degree turn) had come loose (bass only, tweeter was OK).
do owners have to send back to Magnepan for repair or reglue the thin coils themselves?
I phoned the importer about this problem. He offered to send them in but said that I could do it myself if I wanted to spare shipping (I think he wasn't happy to fix them). He told me which glue I have to use (it was from Pattex, not the brown one but a clear one). I bought the glue and fixing the first panel was a real mess. It took me three turns until the wires sticked permanently. Fixing the second panel was faster.
what preventative measures can i take to reduce likelihood of delamination? monitor ambient temperature and humidity? avoid working the speakers/coils past a certain threshold?
Don't play deep bass? I don't know, but I've heard that my MG 1.6 (bought in 1991) came from a charge which suffered regularly from this problem.
i like the sound and the speakers and have had them for over a week now. hoping to keep and enjoy for at least 10 years, if not longer.
Just enjoy them. Maybe the new models which use flat wire have better contact.
any other long time or recent maggie owners have this issue? any that avoided this problem so far? is it more common on larger panels?
 

Sancus

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Don't play deep bass? I don't know, but I've heard that my MG 1.6 (bought in 1991) came from a charge which suffered regularly from this problem.
That could be it, tbh. I played my 1.7s pretty hard I think, and was never all that happy with the mid-bass response. It's one of the reasons I've moved on from them. I suspect they compress quite a bit below 300hz at more than [email protected] or so.
 

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