Low volume produced by Amazon Music App on Amazon Fire TV Stick

[lc6]

I have an Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K Max connected to an AVR via HDMI. The Amazon Music app running on the stick is ver. 3.4.706.0. Several weeks ago, I noticed that the volume of PCM audio streamed by the app became significantly lower than that of the same program material streamed directly to the AVR via its built-in Amazon Music client or streamed by a FLAC server on the LAN. I have to crank up the AVR volume by about 10-15 dB to achieve the same sound level, but the tracks do not sound as dynamic; it is as if the app on the stick shifted the PCM sample by 2 bits to the right. However, the Amazon Prime Video and other apps on the same stick produce proper sound volume when streaming movies in DD+ or Atmos. Reinstalling the app or switching the stick's audio output from the default "best available" to basic PCM does not help. I spent a long time on the chat and phone with Amazon customer support and they could not help other than to offer to "repair" the stick after I send it in (however, it clearly is not a hardware issue, but a software one). Finally, they contacted a supervisor who apparently stated "this is a known problem." But there is no fix yet. Does anyone else experience the same issue?

 

[Martin_320]

Does anyone else experience the same issue?

YES!! You are describing exactly the same thing that I am experiencing with my Fire TV Cube!
It started happening a few weeks ago.
I too have been talking to Amazon tech support. They refused to acknowledge to me that there was a problem, and they have instead offered to talk me though factory-resetting my Fire Cube.
Now reading what you say, it's clear that a recent software update is to blame.

UPDATE:
I have just now received this following response from Amazon support:
------------------------------------------------
Thank you for contacting Amazon!
Thank you for contacting in today and taking the time out of your busy schedule.
I am sorry for the inconvenience caused to you regarding the audio issue on the app.
Further, I feel this may certainly be a potential option that we should consider to cater to the many of our customers who may be facing this issue.
On checking, I see that the issue has already been escalated to the internal team and our team is looking into this.
I have now once again passed the feedback to the right team to look into this and check the options and update avaialble. I'd request you to please give us some time on this, customer interests and feedback is always looked into at depth here at Amazon.
We'll surely try an action upon your request as soon as possible. Rest assured, we are here to take care of issues you encounter and we always endeavour to provide the best service to our valued customers.
Once again thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts of improvement with us.

------------------------------------------------

 

[valerianf]

lc6 said: Does anyone else experience the same issue?

Yes, it is also happening with Amazon Video app on my smart TV and my Fire stick 4K.
Workaround: I increased (a few dB) the internal gain of my AVR.
Watching other forums it seems to be general to all Amazon audio products including the Cube.

 

[Chrispy]

Is it really a problem if you just change gain/volume level?

 

[lc6]

YES!! You are describing exactly the same thing that I am experiencing with my Fire TV Cube!
It started happening a few weeks ago.

So it clearly must be a software issue with the Amazon Music app which manifests itself across different devices. I wonder what caused the sudden volume change -- complaints about clipping of some program material (i.e. exceeding DFS) on some attached AVRs or DACs?

Unfortunately, increasing the gain for the particular AVR input to which an Amazon device is attached is only a partial solution. When the source volume is digitally lowered (by dividing of signal), the resolution is lost because the smallest quant remains unchanged. So, for example, a 16-bit signal becomes in effect 14 bits (if the volume is digitally lowered by 12 dB = 2 bits). I perceive it as lower dynamics / fuzziness of sound.

My temporary workaround has been to use a tablet running an app that controls a built-in Amazon client on the AVR. Try, for example, the Malia and Boris Blank's "Convergence" album, which is very clearly recorded (must be that "Swiss precision" ) -- the difference in quality (after equalizing volume) should be quite evident.

 

[Martin_320]

Is it really a problem if you just change gain/volume level?

Yes that is a problem. Increasing the gain on the AVR is simply amplifying a low resolution (ie. bit-crushed) input signal (as lc6 explains above) and sounds awful. The other problem of doing that, is that when you switch over your amp/receiver to another digital hifi source - say to a network FLAC streamer or to your CD player - you get a sudden massive jump in volume that could damage your speakers and your ears.

 

[Dunring]

YES!! You are describing exactly the same thing that I am experiencing with my Fire TV Cube!
It started happening a few weeks ago.
I too have been talking to Amazon tech support. They refused to acknowledge to me that there was a problem, and they have instead offered to talk me though factory-resetting my Fire Cube.
Now reading what you say, it's clear that a recent software update is to blame.

Same here, testing some BT headphones I noticed the FireTV Cube couldn't get them loud like on other devices. I'll send in a tech support complaint too, since the more they get, the better chance they'll believe it's a big issue.

 

[lc6]

@Dunring That is good to know, as it indicates the problem is not specific to HDMI. The clueless Amazon support always wants the customer to try a different HDMI port, reset the device to factory defaults (a pain in the neck to reenter all app usernames and passwords), reinstall the Music app, send in the device for "repair," etc., i.e. anything but acknowledging the actual problem inside the app.

Incidentally, the app on the PC works fine when it is set to "exclusive mode," which allows it to control the volume (set it to max and then control via the regular Windows volume). This implies the source signal on the server is fine and it is the app on the stick/cube that is messing it up.

 

[Martin_320]

Incidentally, the app on the PC works fine when it is set to "exclusive mode," which allows it to control the volume (set it to max and then control via the regular Windows volume). This implies the source signal on the server is fine and it is the app on the stick/cube that is messing it up.

Yes, the PC app works fine for me too.
Moreover, additional proof that the audio degradation is happening inside the Fire Cube / Fire Stick software itself is by switching to my Marantz receiver's built-in HEOS Amazon Music native client. The exact same Amazon Ultra HD audio songs played though HEOS sound so much better than what the Fire Cube is currently putting out.
A few weeks ago they both sounded identical.

 

[lc6]

Amazon has updated its Music app on the Fire TV Stick to ver. 3.4.733.0. The good news is that the app now has a setting to enable streaming of spatial audio to a capable device, such as a Dolby Atmos AVR. The bad news is that the level of audio signal sent via HDMI is still way too low. A simple way to test this is to enable navigation sounds and compare the volume of clicks to that of music -- the clicks are much louder, instead of the other way around (as was the case several weeks ago). So clearly a significant signal suppression is still present.

 

[Martin_320]

A simple way to test this is to enable navigation sounds and compare the volume of clicks to that of music -- the clicks are much louder, instead of the other way around (as was the case several weeks ago(. So clearly a significant signal suppression is still present.

Yes I notice this too. The volume with songs played with the Amazon Music app on the Fire TV / Fire Cube is still excruciatingly low. The fact that the navigation clicks are now louder than the music (when that wasn't the case several week ago) proves that the music's dynamic range is being suppressed by the current app firmware.
Moreover, there's no way that Amazon can legitimately label their songs -- when played through a Fire TV device -- as "UHD" or even "HD".

 

[lc6]

Moreover, there's no way that Amazon can legitimately label their songs -- when played through a Fire TV device -- as "UHD" or even "HD".

Soon, some enterprising small law firm (of which there are plenty in the U.S.) will likely line up a few paying customers and file a class-action lawsuit against Amazon for "false advertising, service misrepresentation, etc." If I were Amazon, I would fix this issue right away. One simple solution: a setting that allows a user-selectable "low/high dynamic range" (which could be low by default). This way, if your DAC clips, stay on the default setting, but if it does not, set it to high to restore the original full range of the program material. Just a thought.

 

[Martin_320]

One simple solution: a setting that allows a user-selectable "low/high dynamic range" (which could be low by default)

That would be good. Maybe they could call it or something like: "Pure Music Direct", with an advisory popup: "This feature streams PCM lossless stereo music quality with the full dynamic range when your Fire TV device is connected via HDMI to a Home-Theatre or Hi-Fi system."

 

[Bsmooth]

I am also experiencing this low volume issue. Is there a way to boost the audio signal somehow ? Right now I run the output of the firestick into my Yamaha reciever into its coaxial single CD digital input. Is there a way to boost the output into the coax somehow ?
Or maybe what I should ask is what is the best way to use the Amazon Music app. I like the lyrics shown and other features as well I can look at on my TV while playing music, but the low volume is a pain. Would an Echo link help boost the volume ?

 

[lc6]

Right now I run the output of the firestick into my Yamaha reciever into its coaxial single CD digital input. Is there a way to boost the output into the coax somehow ?

Fire TV Sticks only have an HDMI interface. So how do you connect it to the analog coax input of your Yamaha AVR?
As discussed earlier on this thread, some AVRs do have the capability to set additional amplification per-input port (e.g. up to 6 dB on the RX-A6x), but that does not solve the problem because (a) the Amazon Music app volume attenuation is currently more than 6 dB, and (b) the attenuation in the app effectively causes the sample resolution to drop by 2-3 bits, so the dynamic range is lost and additional amplification won't fix it.
The best temporary solution is not to use the Amazon Music app on the Stick, but instead to stream using the Amazon Music client built into the AVR which is controlled by MusicCast app on a smartphone or tablet. But, as you wrote, you then lose the lyrics (I like that feature, too), as well as the ability to navigate to album/artist from the song being played.

 

[Bsmooth]

I'm also using a audio extractor converter as well. Problem is I have an older RXV-757 Receiver. is there a way to have my cake and eat it too, so to speak.
Could I maybe plug it into the Phono input maybe? Hoping the preamp would be louder.
I have also heard the Denon Receivers can utilize Amazon music. Would going that route help at all, or is just using Amazon Music not a good thing ?

 

[lc6]

I'm also using a audio extractor converter as well. Problem is I have an older RXV-757 Receiver. is there a way to have my cake and eat it too, so to speak.
Could I maybe plug it into the Phono input maybe? Hoping the preamp would be louder.
I have also heard the Denon Receivers can utilize Amazon music. Would going that route help at all, or is just using Amazon Music not a good thing ?

The phono input is typically for a signal level in single millivolts (for moving magnet phono cartridges) or even a fraction of a millivolt (for moving coil), whereas the line-level signal is typically several hundred millivolts. So the latter would likely overload a phono input and cause a lot of distortion (or maybe even damage to the phono pre-amp circuit); I would not recommend that approach.

Yes, modern Yamaha and Denon receivers come with a built-in "app" (or "client") to connect to the Amazon Music servers and receive direct streams. I would assume that during such playback, these receivers also send the resulting analog audio signals to their pre-amp outputs, to which you could connect other analog devices.

I think Amazon Music has been quite a good service (and made even better by finally enabling Spatial Audio streaming through HDMI to a receiver). I hope Amazon fixes the low volume issue soon; there is no technical reason not to do so, since it was fine until several weeks ago. So, keep contacting Amazon customer support and complaining.

 

[Bsmooth]

Is there a way to boost the signal somehow, maybe run it thru a DAC with a volume control?

 

[lc6]

Is there a way to boost the signal somehow, maybe run it thru a DAC with a volume control?

You could amplify the signal but this would not fix the loss of resolution. Example: suppose you took each 16-bit PCM sample of the signal and divided it by 4 (i.e. shifted it by 2 bits to the right) so that the new digital full scale is only 14 bits. You would lose 2 x (6 dB per bit) = 12 dB of the dynamic range. You could then amplify the resulting signal by 12 dB so that it plays louder (at the original volume), but the signal's resolution would still be 14 bits not 16 bits.

Based on mine and other members' observations, this is exactly what the Amazon Music App on the Fire TV Stick and Cube is currently doing -- sending a digital signal via HDMI to the AVR that has an unacceptably low digital volume (compared to the volume sent only 1-2 months ago, and also the unchanged volume received by the Amazon Music client/app built into the AVR firmware). This tells us the digital volume at the source (Amazon servers) is still fine, but for some reason or software bug, attenuation was introduced in the last two versions of the Amazon Music App on the Stick / Cube. That needs to be fixed.

 

[Bsmooth]

So is there a way to boost the signal, that I can do? Who knows If Amazon will fix it, or when ?