Lots of noise from my USB DAC, should I get an optical DAC?

[Thorskin]

I have a NAS HTPC that id like to use as my main audio source using a DAC but at the moment all I own is a Topping D10 and a old AQ Dragonfly (bought many years ago) and I am getting a lot of noise coming from my USBs.

I have my NAD c372 stereo amp volume set very loud at around the 2oclock mark which I do not change (I have a reason for this in my AV setup) and I usually lower my volume using Digital volume or a Schiit Sys.
The problem is this amplifies the noise of the USB greatly and its very noticible and aanoying.

My partner has a sensitivity to high frequencies so she hears it more than I do but its a high frequency whining that often oscilates, it also makes noises anytime the computer proceses anything, like opening the start button, transfering files, whatever. (with it being a NAS its constantly doing something)

Do I need to get a DAC with optical in? Are there any other options? I am asuming USB "decrapifiers" like the Wyrd are just a bunch of fooey in most cases and wont actually do anything for most people but could it help me here? It was my immedieate thought for a solution, although I am quite ignorant so Id like your opinions on a actual non snake oil working solution before I waste my money.

I have taken a audio clip of the noise, I am not sure you can hear it well, this is with the phone directly next to the speaker and the volume increased a little just to make it audiable. https://drive.google.com/file/d/12mQpoWeZhgSzwhqkK2IiJA7xZ1AqrTHG/view?usp=sharing

I have tried different USB ports, I have tried the DACs and Amp combo with my other PC + 2 different laptops and it was dead silent so its something to do with this PCs USB in particular.

 

[Jinjuku]

List out equipment model name of everything and how you have everything connected.

With your other PC and laptops were they plugged into the same outlet as your current computer? If you have one of those cheap outlet testers please verify the wiring of the wall outlet.

Also if you have an extension cord run it from another outlet that is on another breaker and see if the noise goes away.

 

[Blumlein 88]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ntinually-clicks-and-disconnects-solved.9450/

Someone had a similar problem with the D10, and others have reported noise like you are getting.

In the above he fixed the issues by getting a powered USB hub and letting that feed the D10. Whether that will work for you I don't know, but it has a good chance it will. My guess is the USB noise is getting into the PS of the D10 and modulating the output. Even in optical it might do that. Though optical would fix grounding issues which could be part of it. (which is what Jinjuku is thinking I would say)

Finally, some have reported using RCA cables that aren't shielded let the D10 be picky about noise. If the D10 is real close to the computer try moving it a couple feet away and see if that helps.

 

[Thorskin]

List out equipment model name of everything and how you have everything connected.

With your other PC and laptops were they plugged into the same outlet as your current computer? If you have one of those cheap outlet testers please verify the wiring of the wall outlet.

Also if you have an extension cord run it from another outlet that is on another breaker and see if the noise goes away.

I have my NAD c372 Integrated Stereo amp connected to my front LR speakers
this whole setup is connected to my Denon 2310 AV amps pre outs so that I can utilise the NAD for the front LR channels. (this is the reason I have to have my volume so high on the NAD but I have remedied it with the use of the Schiit Sys and before that, digital volume control)
This setup allows me to utilise my front stereo speakers for both Stereo listening and movies with the added bonus of having them powered by the NAD for both purposes.
I have all my Digital sources (HDMIs, Firesticks etc) plugged into the AV amp and all my analog in sources (turntable, CD, DAC etc) into the NAD stereo amp.

So the DAC is connected from my HP n40l Microserver (NAS / HTPC) to the Schiit Sys and into the NAD c372.

I hope that explains everything well enough.

I do not have an outlet tester but have thought about getting one for some time now.


I will try it on another outlet but I have a very strong fealing it will not do anything.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ntinually-clicks-and-disconnects-solved.9450/

Someone had a similar problem with the D10, and others have reported noise like you are getting.

In the above he fixed the issues by getting a powered USB hub and letting that feed the D10. Whether that will work for you I don't know, but it has a good chance it will. My guess is the USB noise is getting into the PS of the D10 and modulating the output. Even in optical it might do that. Though optical would fix grounding issues which could be part of it. (which is what Jinjuku is thinking I would say)

Finally, some have reported using RCA cables that aren't shielded let the D10 be picky about noise. If the D10 is real close to the computer try moving it a couple feet away and see if that helps.

Ah thats a shame, Ill have a look at his experience.

I actually am shopping for a powered usb hub so ill give it a go when i get it.

I am using AmazonBasics cables so I think they are properly shielded, I tried moving the DAC away and it did not make any difference.



Would something like a Topping e30 help isolate the DAC by powering it from a seperate AC and using an optical signal?
Although I would still need to use the Topping D10 to output a optical source as my n40l Microserver has no Optical out (could that just transfer the issue along to the optical signal?), unless I get a cheapo pci soundcard with optical out.

 

[Jinjuku]

Have you removed the Denon completely from the mix? So Computer to Topping D10 to NAD to Speakers. So only the Topping connected to the NAD.

 

[Thorskin]

Have you removed the Denon completely from the mix? So Computer to Topping D10 to NAD to Speakers. So only the Topping connected to the NAD.

When no digital sources are being used then the Denon is off, all of my tests are with the Denon being off.
The Topping is connected directly into the NADs RCA in (with the Sys inbetween, but i have even tried without the Sys and it made no difference)

EDIT: To elaborate, the Denon is only connected to one of the NAD inputs via RCA and is only used when I watch movies

 

[Blumlein 88]

When no digital sources are being used then the Denon is off, all of my tests are with the Denon being off.
The Topping is connected directly into the NADs RCA in (with the Sys inbetween, but i have even tried without the Sys and it made no difference)

EDIT: To elaborate, the Denon is only connected to one of the NAD inputs via RCA and is only used when I watch movies

That is still enough for ground currents to cause noise issues. You do have to disconnect the Denon to see what happens.

 

[Jinjuku]

When no digital sources are being used then the Denon is off, all of my tests are with the Denon being off.
The Topping is connected directly into the NADs RCA in (with the Sys inbetween, but i have even tried without the Sys and it made no difference)

EDIT: To elaborate, the Denon is only connected to one of the NAD inputs via RCA and is only used when I watch movies

Sorry, don't mean to be pendantic: I'm not asking if the Denon is turned off. I'm asking if you have disconnected it.

 

[Thorskin]

That is still enough for ground currents to cause noise issues. You do have to disconnect the Denon to see what happens.

Oh I see, Ill try that tomorrow

Sorry, don't mean to be pendantic: I'm not asking if the Denon is turned off. I'm asking if you have disconnected it.

I realise that now sorry, I thought perhaps you misunderstood where the Denon stood in all of this as its quite an odd setup.
The Denon was/is still connected but I will try it again tomorrow with only the PC, DAC and NAD connected.

 

[Asylum Seeker]

...yet, just yesterday one told us here in this very forum noise problems are 'old wives tales'.

To the OP - here's an out-of-the-box idea. Dispense with the|a computer altogether.

 

[Blumlein 88]

...yet, just yesterday one told us here in this very forum noise problems are 'old wives tales'.

To the OP - here's an out-of-the-box idea. Dispense with the|a computer altogether.

Yeah, I mean 99.9% of the people with a USB connected DAC have no noise issues. For the less than 1 in a thousand that do we should just ditch the concept altogether. That make sense? NO, it doesn't.

 

[Asylum Seeker]

Please provide a source for your 99.9% statistic.

The plain fact is that these types of queries|problems are not uncommon here. Far from being old wives tales, as we were reprimanded, just yesterday. And they are all related to PCs.

You are invested in the computer. I get that. I understand your opposition to a new idea and way of doing things.

 

[Jinjuku]

Please provide a source for your 99.9% statistic.

The plain fact is that these types of queries|problems are not uncommon here. Far from being old wives tales, as we were reprimanded, just yesterday. And they are all related to PCs.

Are you here to help or just fuck up this thread?

 

[Asylum Seeker]

Are you here to help or just fuck up this thread?

I actually gave the OP a very straightforward solution. That your see it as fucking up the thread and your gratuitous use of profanity speaks to your openness to other ways of doing things. I will not engage with you further.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Please provide a source for your 99.9% statistic.

The plain fact is that these types of queries|problems are not uncommon here. Far from being old wives tales, as we were reprimanded, just yesterday. And they are all related to PCs.

You are invested in the computer. I get that. I understand your opposition to a new idea and way of doing things.

I don't know about the reprimand you are referring to. Such problems are rare. Of course we don't have people posting everytime they don't have noise. So the overwhelming majority (probably more than 99.9%, but I don't have the data) have no problems. Your solution is the classic throw the baby out with the bathwater mistake.

If you wanted to post getting rid of the PC would eliminate the problem fine.

 

[maxxevv]

If you have the right USB cable, you can try plugging your smartphone to the D10 for your music feed and see if you get the same problem.

If it doesn't, check the power supply of your HTPC. They often come with poorly made power supplies that have issues with some use.

If it still does, its nothing to do with the HTPC but maybe :

i) The power socket is affecting amp.
ii) One of the components have a power supply failure.

Try plugging the system into a different outlet somewhere else in the house. Ideally, using a different wiring path out from the mains circuit breaker.

Or just plugging the HTPC into a different outlet as above to test.

 

[Thorskin]

Have you removed the Denon completely from the mix? So Computer to Topping D10 to NAD to Speakers. So only the Topping connected to the NAD.

I have localised the issue (kind of) and it is indeed coming from the Denon like you said. (in a way)
More specifically it is coming from the HDMI section.
With the Denon FULLY unplugged (no power, no hdmi, no subwoofer, nothing) except for only the RCAs between the Denon to NAD (and NAD to DAC to PC) there is 0% buzzing.
If ANY HDMIs are plugged into the Denon the buzzing is introduced.

For example my HDMI in from any PC or HDMI out to the TV. On the same wall outlet or a different one.
I do not have any other HDMIs to check but I can assume it is any HDMI connections at this point.

Now the odd part (to me) is that if everything is set up as it was with all the HDMIs in place and all its buzzing glory, if I try the same test with the DAC in any laptop (battery powered or hooked up to the power) there is no buzzing at all.

I tried the DAC with 3 mains powered PCs and they all suffer from buzzing, 2 laptops and no buzzing.

EDIT: I tried all these tests with my old Dragonfly DAC on multiple computers and there is no buzzing, there is still an odd interferance but it sounds more like wind. But this can only be heard with my ear to the speaker at 100% volume (Later I realised how much of a bad idea it was and I would really prefer never to do that again as that could have been very bad)

 

[Jinjuku]

Next, TEMPORARY, thing to try: If you have a 3 prong to 2 prong cheater plug try that on the computer and see what happens.

 

[tw99]

Laptops have class II supplies so don't suffer from the problem.

 

[Thorskin]

Next, TEMPORARY, thing to try: If you have a 3 prong to 2 prong cheater plug try that on the computer and see what happens.

I dont think we have those in the UK unfortuantly, if we do I dont have one.