Lost finding a "good" pre-pro

[capitanharlock]

I'm in the same boat, and looking for a decent measuring Av processor since a long time.
Unfortunately can't see any in the 4k eur/$ range.

 

[krizvi786]

I was also looking for just a pre/pro.

I'd have bought the AVM60 if the AVM70 (or whatever the next model is called) and HDMI 2.1 weren't right around the corner (and may be more than the $2,999 AVM60 MSRP).

I really wanted to go Anthem since that is all I have ever owned (processor-wise and amp-wise).

Based on the advice here and elsewhere and my own research I bought the Denon x3700h and will use it in pre/pro only mode paired with my MCA50.

It is set to be delivered Saturday morning, so I know what I will be doing Labor Day Weekend.

For +/- $1,000, I have something 2.1 to play with for now, and can take my time before I dive into the "next big thing" from Anthem (or whoever).

Maybe I will be satisfied with the 3700 and keep it for the next 20 years like I did with the AVM20 it's replacing and the MCA50!

I will report back with my experience and layman's opinions.

Lets us know what you think.

 

[tripitz]

Just curious. Why pick the Marantz 8805 over the Denon 8500?

The 8500 is ~$500 cheaper and outperforms the Marantz.

Denon
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x8500h-avr-review.15266/

Marantz
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...urements-of-marantz-av8805-av-processor.6926/

I did look at the 8500. Unfortunately, I am looking for a non-integrated unit as I already have a very good 5 channel amp (200wpc). I tried a Marantz integrated that a friend lent me and in my setup, I need to stay away from unbalanced cables. I think the long HDMI runs are creating a ground effect (even when everything plugged into same spot) that is exacerbated by either poor design within the unit for the pre-pro section or the unbalanced cables themselves.

I have a PC in the setup and it creates a *lot* of noise. As soon as I switched the pre-pro out to my older Marantz unit using balanced cables, it went away.

 

[tripitz]

I know you have said you don’t want an integrated unit (last year I too was looking for a seperate pre pro), but something like a Denon X3700 would fit your needs nicely. The platform is rock solid, Audyssey works well, never had any HDMI issues at all, measure better than pre pros costing 2-3 times more. If you can get by without balanced connections (no ground loop issues, etc) it makes sense. With the brands/models crossed off you list there isn’t much left to choose from! It would be nice to have a lyngdorf mp50 or mp60 tested. I used a TDAI 3400 for a bit and roomperfect is nice. Like you though, not sure if it is worth their premium price or not (and they haven’t been bench tested here yet). Have fun with your search.

Thank you *all* for the responses. This community is awesome.

Unfortunately, as mentioned in my previous post I just put up, I do have some ground noise issues with unbalanced cables. Plus, the PC is electrically so noisy that it really messed with the system when using unbalanced cables. That went away completely when going back to balanced cables. Not sure what I can really do with the PC - all the parts were top notch parts from good manufacturers. It's not like I have a junky power supply in there...

I would love to see more about the Lyngdorf units to see if they are worth it. I even looked at the McIntosh MX170 because of the combination of the Lyngdorf HDMI and Room Perfect solutions plus McIntosh analog audio pathways (great to hook up something like an M Audio dac/streamer to the xlr inputs). The problem is that it costs as much as a car and new standards are right around the corner...

I can get an 8805 on discount and thanks to the comments here, I think I am going to give it a try and see how it turns out with the app and recommendations here.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I have a PC in the setup and it creates a *lot* of noise.

I have PCs in all of my setups and they do not create any noise.

 

[capitanharlock]

Maybe he's talking about some sort of ground loops...

 

[tripitz]

I have PCs in all of my setups and they do not create any noise.

Most PCs have some noise when it comes to audio. That being said, the amount of noise I was getting using the unbalanced cables was incredible. Very audible hum and high frequency sounds when the PC is in use. I think one of the major culprits is the AIO water cooler I have in there. The pump is pretty much garbage and I believe a source of some of the noise. I have a good quality PSU in there. Everything else is 2-3 generations older and yet still good quality parts (e.g., Gigabyte Z190, Gigabyte 1070, etc.)

So for sure it was creating a ground loop. Even with the PC unpowered and just connected to the circuit, as soon as the HDMI cable was connected the noise floor went up dramatically.

 

[Chromatischism]

old Marantz unit for the time being. So far 0 HDMI issues (although the AVR cannot support HDR, etc.). Unfortunately Audyssey stinks

Which model and version of Audyssey? That makes a difference.

Edit: sorry for being the 10th person to ask, which I found later in the thread. Just a tip, it would have been helpful to list that in the first post.

 

[tripitz]

Which model and version of Audyssey? That makes a difference.

My Marantz supports Audyssey Mult EQ XT32 (Pro). No app support which from what I have seen in this thread is the game changer.

 

[Chromatischism]

Most PCs have some noise when it comes to audio. That being said, the amount of noise I was getting using the unbalanced cables was incredible. Very audible hum and high frequency sounds when the PC is in use. I think one of the major culprits is the AIO water cooler I have in there. The pump is pretty much garbage and I believe a source of some of the noise. I have a good quality PSU in there. Everything else is 2-3 generations older and yet still good quality parts (e.g., Gigabyte Z190, Gigabyte 1070, etc.)

This is definitely true in my experience, which had me using optical out from the PC to sever the electrical connection between them. Unfortunately optical maxes out at 5.1ch compressed or 2ch uncompressed. Would love to find a solution.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Most PCs have some noise when it comes to audio. That being said, the amount of noise I was getting using the unbalanced cables was incredible. Very audible hum and high frequency sounds when the PC is in use.

It is not clear to me how your PC is connected to the rest of your system. If you are using the aforementioned unbalanced (analog) cables, it would not surprise me that you would be getting some noise issues. However, if you are sending digital output from it, either from the MB ports or added i/o devices, there should not be any noise issues.

So for sure it was creating a ground loop. Even with the PC unpowered and just connected to the circuit, as soon as the HDMI cable was connected the noise floor went up dramatically.

Ah. I missed this. Ground loop is another story and one that should be resolved.

 

[tripitz]

It is not clear to me how your PC is connected to the rest of your system. If you are using the aforementioned unbalanced (analog) cables, it would not surprise me that you would be getting some noise issues. However, if you are sending digital output from it, either from the MB ports or added i/o devices, there should not be any noise issues.
Ah. I missed this. Ground loop is another story and one that should be resolved.

Not sure how one resolves it other than using balanced cables? Perhaps the Marantz doesn't have a good pre-out section (Amir seemed to indicate that on his 7-series review). I played around with positioning, cables, etc... as soon as the HDMI cable is connected the noise floor goes up. The noise floor is significantly higher with unbalanced cables than with balanced. The non-grounded receiver is clearly pulling ground from the amp and that gets worse when the HDMI cable gets added to the PC.

I even removed my WIFI card and GPU from the PC. The behavior happens when using the HDMI on the motherboard. I also experimented with a DVI to HDMI adapter and a Display Port to HDMI adapter. Good times...

I am planning on adding a dedicated 20 amp circuit to this room for my AV equipment - except it's hard to find an electrician right now who has time. When I had one here for some other work, they had trouble sourcing a new sub-panel which is what I need before I can add another line.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Not sure how one resolves it other than using balanced cables? Perhaps the Marantz doesn't have a good pre-out section (Amir seemed to indicate that on his 7-series review).

Amir's measurements are not relevant to this issue and I have used both balanced and unbalanced outputs. In fact, at the moment, my main amp/speakers are on XLR and the subwoofers are on RCA with no noise differences. My system's AC connections have varied over the years but I have never had a ground-loop hum issue with the Marantz except with one pair of defective RCA cables which were replaced ASAP.

I do not believe that this is a specific PC/prepro issue but a generic ground loop problem. If you don't solve it, getting a different prepro will not. Going from RCA cables to XLR is just masking the underlying fault. To further isolate the issue, have you tried using headphones on the prepro with your power amps turned off?

 

[Beershaun]

How do you use your PC in your system today? Could a raspberry pi streaming endpoint replace it and allow you to take the PC and associated noise out of your system?

That could be a much cheaper and easier solution than installing a new circuit and open up your options beyond XLR.

 

[GordonParet]

Not sure how one resolves it other than using balanced cables? Perhaps the Marantz doesn't have a good pre-out section (Amir seemed to indicate that on his 7-series review). I played around with positioning, cables, etc... as soon as the HDMI cable is connected the noise floor goes up. The noise floor is significantly higher with unbalanced cables than with balanced. The non-grounded receiver is clearly pulling ground from the amp and that gets worse when the HDMI cable gets added to the PC.

I even removed my WIFI card and GPU from the PC. The behavior happens when using the HDMI on the motherboard. I also experimented with a DVI to HDMI adapter and a Display Port to HDMI adapter. Good times...

I am planning on adding a dedicated 20 amp circuit to this room for my AV equipment - except it's hard to find an electrician right now who has time. When I had one here for some other work, they had trouble sourcing a new sub-panel which is what I need before I can add another line.

It sounds like your PC is causing a ground loop. I assume that if you unplug the computer from power the noise goes away?

If you have a spare computer mains cord you're willing to sacrifice, cut the ground prong off and see if the noise is still present without ground? This worked for me with a ground loop I had with my old PC that I assembled myself.

If the noise is gone, the question now is, is it safe to use without the ground? At least you've identified what's causing the noise.

 

[rccarguy]

It sounds like your PC is causing a ground loop. I assume that if you unplug the computer from power the noise goes away?

If you have a spare computer mains cord you're willing to sacrifice, cut the ground prong off and see if the noise is still present without ground? This worked for me with a ground loop I had with my old PC that I assembled myself.

If the noise is gone, the question now is, is it safe to use without the ground? At least you've identified what's causing the noise.

Raising ground is a no no?

 

[Doodski]

Raising ground is a no no?

It can void the insurance because it is not to code and not the original UL or CSA approved configuration..

 

[GordonParet]

Raising ground is a no no?

It's just a temporary test to see if the computer is causing all the issues he's having. The computer is connected to the processor via HDMI. It could be why the Anthem processor is producing HDMI issues. The computer may be polluting the HDMI board in the processor? That noise then also polluted the RCA outputs. Using balanced XLR cancels the noise but HDMI is still affected. Not sure why it would only cause problems with the Anthem and not the old processor but who knows? It may be that he needs a different computer and not a new processor.

 

[GordonParet]

If the Anthem is at the dealer, they should hook it up there to see if the HDMI issue can be replicated. If it works fine there, then it's probably another component in his system, perhaps the computer, causing the problems.

If they can replicate it at the dealer, it will confirm that the Anthem is defective and they should provide a refund, exchange or warranty service. Since his first complaint was well in advance of the 30 day return period, he should be able to get a refund or exchange.

 

[tripitz]

As an update: dealer called and despite saying they didn't send a replacement leading to my full on return, Anthem actually sent a new unit. I picked it up last night and installed it today. This one is even worse. It *hates* the computer - no noise can be heard through the speakers. It blinks non-stop so now I have video of it. It does it with the pc grounded or not (used a cheater plug to test). I can still get the Apple TV to totally kill the image with the PC completely unplugged (both power and HDMI). I also had fun watching the network connection screen completely crash. In Dolby Vision mode, the on screen display is gone and pressing setup will make the unit completely loose image. Good times!

I have had *zero* issues with my Marantz 7702 in the 48 hours it's been hooked up. I've been hammering with everything that caused issues with the Anthem. The dealer didn't even charge me to take the Anthem home and they are sending their tech out later this week. I appreciate the effort they are doing. I have even moved the power source to a completely different 20 amp circuit. Also getting an electrician out here to run a new line to this room anyway and to check everything.

Ran ARC again - what an improvement over out of the box Audyssey. The room really needs it.

Appreciate all the help here and efforts to get something working.