Lost finding a "good" pre-pro

[tripitz]

Hi all. Recently purchased an Anthem AVM-60 for a 5.1 setup (will be expanded later to more channels). The room is a challenging room with a lot of glass so ARC did a fantastic job taming some of the issues with bass performance. Sub integration is the best I've experienced by far relative to an older Audyssey based Marantz that I own. Unfortunately, the HDMI implementation does not play well with my setup at all. I am going to return the unit and am stuck deciding on what to purchase. I am using a standalone 5 channel amp so I do not want to purchase an integrated unit.

My budget is flexible to buy the best unit that I can. This system will be used 50/50 music and home theater. Sound quality is important to me and I plan on purchasing a Matrix Audio DAC once I figure this all out.

I have looked at Lyngdorf/McIntosh and see that the Lyngdorf TDAI units did not review well here (Part 1 of the integrated TDAI review). I assume the MP series is roughly the same in terms of performance. Is it worth paying the premium to get Room Perfect? If I am paying in the 10k range, I need to know I am getting something of quality. I cannot justify the expense for the super high end (Trinnov for example).

Based on the reviews here done by Amir, the Marantz 7/8 pre-pros. Monoprice, and Emotiva are a no-go. Any other recommendations?

 

[MarsianC#]

Trinnov Altitude? Market for high end pre's is very small.
Whats is wrong with Anthem's HDMI?

 

[tripitz]

Trinnov Altitude? Market for high end pre's is very small.
Whats is wrong with Anthem's HDMI?

I am experiencing random HDMI dropouts on multiple devices despite swapping out cables/etc. Current cables are BlueJeans Active cables (short distances - 20 and 25 feet). Doesn't matter if the source is on a 3 foot "certified" cable. Have done all dealer recommended issues and it seems that Anthem doesn't play well with my display device (LG Oled).

Trinnov is out of my price point. I just want good sound quality and room correction. Do not need a crazy number of channels.

 

[ex audiophile]

I have an AVM60 and LG oled with no issues. Perhaps the AVM is faulty; have you called Anthem support? They have been very helpful to me when I've had questions. Sounds like room correction is essential, perhaps one of the DIRAC units would work, but I'd try to figure out the Anthem before giving up on it. The AVM 60 does very well with music; I hooked up an STR pre in home theater mode and could not detect a difference over the AVM by itself.

 

[MarsianC#]

Storm Audio? Also expensive...
Have you tried longer cables? Sounds funny, but can help. Amazon Basic cables are sufficent.

 

[tripitz]

I have an AVM60 and LG oled with no issues. Perhaps the AVM is faulty; have you called Anthem support? They have been very helpful to me when I've had questions. Sounds like room correction is essential, perhaps one of the DIRAC units would work, but I'd try to figure out the Anthem before giving up on it. The AVM 60 does very well with music; I hooked up an STR pre in home theater mode and could not detect a difference over the AVM by itself.

Been working through their support. I'm just spending way too much time on this and dealer has offered to take it back or replace. Looking at some other forums, HDMI issues seem common with the Anthem. I do like the way it sounds though with ARC.

Any Dirac units you'd recommend?

 

[tripitz]

Storm Audio? Also expensive...
Have you tried longer cables? Sounds funny, but can help. Amazon Basic cables are sufficent.

Yep! Started off with the Amazon Premium 25 foot ones (really only need 20 between the AVM and LG). Switched then to pricier installer non-branded cables from my dealer who does a lot of integration work. Most recently switched to active BlueJeans cables. It's definitely not the cables at this point!

 

[ex audiophile]

Storm Audio? Also expensive...
Have you tried longer cables? Sounds funny, but can help. Amazon Basic cables are sufficent.

I felt the same way about AMZ cables, but recently installed an AMZ Basic subwoofer cable to one of my subs and the hum was tremendous, i could hear it when i entered the room. I replaced the cable with a blue jeans cable I had on hand and the hum disappeared. Anecdotal I know, but convinced me.

 

[ex audiophile]

Been working through their support. I'm just spending way too much time on this and dealer has offered to take it back or replace. Looking at some other forums, HDMI issues seem common with the Anthem. I do like the way it sounds though with ARC.

Any Dirac units you'd recommend?

I have no experience with Dirac, others here would be better to advise.

 

[MarsianC#]

25 foot ones

Sry, i was lost on the length. Thats a long cable

 

[BsdKurt]

I know you said you didn’t want an integrated but perhaps consider Denon x3700 in pre-amp mode until a pre-pro that fits your needs, budget and objective measurements shows up.

 

[yourmando]

I know you said you didn’t want an integrated but perhaps consider Denon x3700 in pre-amp mode until a pre-pro that fits your needs, budget and objective measurements shows up.

I’ve been researching myself and would agree that:

1) The current line of Denon AVRs used in pre-pro mode + the $20 USD Audyssey phone app for more control is one of the best options for what you need.

Also,

2) Monoprice HTP-1 pre-pro would fit, with Dirac plus the Bass Control upgrade

The Denon’s are tried and true and are known to be in the top tier when it comes to few HDMI and other bugs. The 3700 might cover everything you need. You’d need the 4700 if you want Auro 3D support. If only pre-outs are used, the amps are completely bypassed. The only con is the added weight.

Monoprice is newer, but with ATI as their experienced pre-pro manufacturer. It looks like the Monoprice HDMI implementation is solid. Lots of people on AVSforum, for example, have jumped on after frustration with Emotiva HDMI issues and are finding that the HTP-1 “just works.”

Why does the review make the Monoprice out for you? It’s one of the best measuring processors on this site. There was one issue where the output voltage at 2.7 is not up to pro levels, but that may be a non-issue for you if the input sensitivity of your amp is compatible. Sadly, for many/most pre-pros, there are much bigger problems like basic HDMI handling, stability bugs etc but both of these seem to do well on the feature and bug matrix.

Finally,

3) The JBL Synthesis 55 looks promising, but it looks like it still has a lot of basic functionality bugs. There is a post on AVSForum that’s keeping an updated list. I would personally wait on this one to see if the bugs are fixed, and also it hasn’t been measured yet. If it measures well and the bugs are fixed, it could be among the best. It also features digital outputs for every channel.

 

[tripitz]

Thank you all for the responses. Currently going through replacement process with Anthem in the hopes I just have a bad HDMI port.

I really need to strongly consider the recommendations of going with a Denon as per the thread above. That may be a good affordable option.

As for the Monoprice, I did not get the warm and fuzzies when reading Amir's reviews. Yes, the measurements are good. It seemed like the package around it is kind of meh. I guess I need to do more research.

I also looked into JBL - seems very polarizing and not inexpensive.

Seems like a market opportunity to be honest with so many phone it in efforts. It doesn't help that HDMI keeps on changing so rapidly.

 

[GordonParet]

I have an LG OLED and AVM 60 with no issues. I did have HDMI handshake issues when I had 4K devices connected to the TV. This was when I had an older Integra processor without 4K support. I suspect that the TV is the trouble maker and not the AVM 60.

Have you tried a different HDMI port on the TV? I don't use the audio return channel. The TV is connected to the processor with Toslink. CEC is off. I use these 2m long HDMI cables.

If you are running 25 feet between processor and TV with and experiencing drop outs it could be that your cables don't have the bandwidth even though they are advertised to. I had a similar problem with my old projection system with a 30 foot run. A better cable resolved it.

To your original question, in my quest for a new processor, I narrowed it down to the Yamaha CX-A5200 and the Anthem AVM 60.

I chose the Anthem because of its simplicity (less feature bloat) ARC and the ability to create multiple profiles. I have 1 profile for multi channel and 1 for 2 channel. The 2 channel profile doesn't use ARC, the subwoofer crossover is set at 60 Hz and sound mode set to Anthem Logic. The Anthem is a strong 2 channel performer.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[tripitz]

Thanks again for the response. I had 0 issues with the LG with this equipment before I had the Anthem. I used a 20 year old receiver that died on me which prompted the upgrade. I also bought a dedicated 5 channel amp and needed to move some things around the room, which prompted the need for longer cables.

As for cables, I've used Amazon Basics 4k premium cables, 4k cables my dealer uses for all of their installations, and active cables from BlueJeans cables. I've had amazing luck with HDMI and long runs with anything BlueJeans sells so I cannot really say I didn't try to fix the issue. It's a 20 foot run between the Anthem and the TV.

I have CEC off on all devices and I have switched between HDMI ports. Currently waiting for an advanced replacement and hoping for the best before I move on to something else (I hope Anthem will let me - apparently they have issues since it's over 30 days - even though I've been trying to resolve it with cables with my local dealer since the first weekend!)

 

[GordonParet]

Hopefully, you get things sorted out with the Anthem.

If you do end up looking for a different unit, the Yamaha CX-A5200 and (if you can stretch your budget) the NAD M17 V2 are a couple of other processors you could look at.

The NAD also uses Dirac room correction.

 

[tripitz]

As a follow-up, after Anthem started dragging their feet to get me a replacement, I dropped the unit off at the dealer and am using an old Marantz unit for the time being. So far 0 HDMI issues (although the AVR cannot support HDR, etc.). Unfortunately Audyssey stinks... Also borrowed a newer Marantz from a friend for a day with a newer/better version of Audyssey and it is disappointing.

I am trying to think a bit outside the box - is is possible to use a DAC to decode 5.1 audio with XLR out to an amp? If so, what would that be? I could use the TV as the switching device.

I did more research on the NAD M17 v2 and the reviews on this site are terrible. I was hoping to just go with an 8805 from Marantz except the sound quality/performance in my room with ARC is so much better than Audyssey.

Assuming I had the budget, should the Lyngdorfs be considered? I know Amir wasn't enamored with the performance of the DAC, except his part 2 suggest the room correction makes up for it.

 

[MarsianC#]

is is possible to use a DAC to decode 5.1 audio with XLR out to an amp?

Yes, but only PCM. So no Dolby TrueHD/DTS Master....
Have you tried playing with D&M's MultEq App? XT32 is not that bad, it just needs a bit more love

 

[tripitz]

Yes, but only PCM. So no Dolby TrueHD/DTS Master....
Have you tried playing with D&M's MultEq App? XT32 is not that bad, it just needs a bit more love

No.. not yet. I had to pull the Marantz that supports it since it is an integrated and I had to used unbalanced cables. For whatever reason, it *hates* the PC being anywhere connected to it (e.g., tons and tons of noise even if the PC is unpowered and part of the ground loop - even if plugged into the same brick). It goes away when using the balanced connectors on the pre-pro older Marantz.

Out of the box performance just felt wrong. I always struggled with bass matching with Audyssey. It feels like a major major step back compared to ARC. I feel lost - I come here to read the reviews and pretty much all the units at any price point suck.

 

[Beershaun]

The Denon 8500 seems to be the best implemented 4k hdr Atmos receiver at the moment. If price is not a concern you could use that in full preamp mode and call it done.

I am not aware of a av preamp that allows you to take advantage of an external dac while using it's DSP for room correction or eq. They all need to re digitize the input from the external dac to perform the DSP function.