Looking for suggestions on how to improve my stack

[georgist]

Hi

I'm pretty clueless about audio systems.
I have the following:

raspberry pi 4 = usb => topping d10s ==> rega brio ==> kef Q1 speakers

the reg amp and kef speakers are from around 18 years ago.
The speakers are on stands, probably this is the most "pro" part of my setup!
I'm typically streaming 320 kbps mp3s over wired lan from a NAS.

I'm looking for advice on what to do to improve things. I love listening to pop/rock/jazz/blues on my system, but I also feel it could sound better.
My problem is I don't know if I need to upgrade something or add something.
Also happy to read more, however I find the cacophony of different information a bit overwhelming, hard to know where to start.

ps also have a scarlett solo from my pc into JBL 306PMKII, separate system

 

[Dunring]

I'd start by going to 44.1khz 16 bit FLAC files, try a couple side by side with your mp3 library and hear if you notice an upgrade.

 

[voodooless]

The obvious candidate is always the speakers: they are the biggest differentiator for sound. If you don’t want to invest into that, try EQ’ing what you have first. It will cost you nothing at all and you can gain quite a bit. Ideally you have some tools to measure your system (measurement microphone). Maybe that should be your next investment?

 

[kemmler3D]

Best chance of noticeably better sound without wasting money, based on your current setup:

1) Get a UMIK or similar measurement mic
2) See what your in-room response is like
3) Correct it using the RPi
4) Think about adding subs and/or upgrading the KEF speakers

The Q1s are getting on in years and KEF (among others) have made major strides in loudspeaker design since then. So if you have anywhere near $1K to spend (or even half that) I am confident you can achieve a significant upgrade in terms of speakers.

The Brio is 50wpc which is fine for quieter / closer listening, but will run out of juice for very loud listening. So if you intend to hit massively loud peaks you may want to upgrade the amp as well.

 

[Deleted member 21114]

I'd start by going to 44.1khz 16 bit FLAC files, try a couple side by side with your mp3 library and hear if you notice an upgrade.

Unless OP has spent hours training themself to hear differences in key-jangling samples I think this should be skipped. Getting better mastered versions of your favourite albums would be a better bet.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi

I'm pretty clueless about audio systems.
I have the following:

raspberry pi 4 = usb => topping d10s ==> rega brio ==> kef Q1 speakers

the reg amp and kef speakers are from around 18 years ago.
The speakers are on stands, probably this is the most "pro" part of my setup!
I'm typically streaming 320 kbps mp3s over wired lan from a NAS.

I'm looking for advice on what to do to improve things. I love listening to pop/rock/jazz/blues on my system, but I also feel it could sound better.
My problem is I don't know if I need to upgrade something or add something.
Also happy to read more, however I find the cacophony of different information a bit overwhelming, hard to know where to start.

ps also have a scarlett solo from my pc into JBL 306PMKII, separate system

Hi,
Your system sounds pretty decent (both of them). No need to rush. There is, of course, always an upgrade path.

You said it yourself: you don't know what to charge. That's a sensible comment.
The 'correct' approach is to measure your system now in order to understand what, if anything, needs attention.
A measurement microphone (umik-1) and free software (REW) and a little time will give you the information you need. People here will help you interpret.

You run two systems. Your JBL's are very well regarded and measure well. I don't know enough about the KEFs but don't change them just on a whim.

Why not swap your speakers - see what the JBL's sound like in your main system. Tell us what you think. You can manage volume from your Pi?

The other thing to consider is to add a subwoofer or two. But, ideally you should measure first.

Enjoy the music

 

[Deleted member 21114]

The other thing to consider is to add a subwoofer or two. But, ideally you should measure first.

A subwoofer dramatically improves a system. Unless your speakers are dire, a sub (and the mic to integrate it) is the best upgrade.

 

[georgist]

Hi,
Your system sounds pretty decent (both of them). No need to rush. There is, of course, always an upgrade path.

You said it yourself: you don't know what to charge. That's a sensible comment.
The 'correct' approach is to measure your system now in order to understand what, if anything, needs attention.
A measurement microphone (umik-1) and free software (REW) and a little time will give you the information you need. People here will help you interpret.

You run two systems. Your JBL's are very well regarded and measure well. I don't know enough about the KEFs but don't change them just on a whim.

Why not swap your speakers - see what the JBL's sound like in your main system. Tell us what you think. You can manage volume from your Pi?

The other thing to consider is to add a subwoofer or two. But, ideally you should measure first.

Enjoy the music

thanks - the JBL's are active so I don't think I can use them with a regular amp? I guess I could just run the pi and d10s into them.

 

[georgist]

Best chance of noticeably better sound without wasting money, based on your current setup:

1) Get a UMIK or similar measurement mic
2) See what your in-room response is like
3) Correct it using the RPi
4) Think about adding subs and/or upgrading the KEF speakers

The Q1s are getting on in years and KEF (among others) have made major strides in loudspeaker design since then. So if you have anywhere near $1K to spend (or even half that) I am confident you can achieve a significant upgrade in terms of speakers.

The Brio is 50wpc which is fine for quieter / closer listening, but will run out of juice for very loud listening. So if you intend to hit massively loud peaks you may want to upgrade the amp as well.

thanks I could spend $1k if I thought it was "worth it", on speakers.
seems like I should get the UMIK first, then measure, then either speakers or subwoofer?

 

[georgist]

well very interesting, as a layman I really wouldn't have thought of getting a special microphone to measure.
seems like this will be around $100 CAD experiment so not a big expenditure, so I'll probably try this and perhaps learn something along the way.

 

[kemmler3D]

thanks I could spend $1k if I thought it was "worth it", on speakers.
seems like I should get the UMIK first, then measure, then either speakers or subwoofer?

Yep. Once you measure, you can add EQ on your Raspberry Pi to correct the sound a bit and/or optimize placement. From there, you can decide how you want to upgrade speakers / subs. Seeing the frequency response in your room and deciding how you feel about it should help you decide.

Doing this actually makes a huge difference to the bass region under 300hz or so. It's a difference you can really hear for the price of a mic and a little time spent measuring. 20hz-300hz may not sound like a lot, but consider that it's about 4 octaves worth of music...

There are many threads here on ASR on how to do this - basically you will want to look at Camilla DSP and how to use REW with your UMIK.

NB: The reason for using a special mic is that it's got a pretty flat frequency response and it also comes with a calibration file, so that you know the recordings/measurements you make are showing the real results. Most mics for studio / podcasting use have a slightly-not-flat response, so all of your measurements/recordings come out with that deviation. Sort of like putting a colored lens on a camera. Sometimes that's what you want, but in this case we just want to know what the sound looks like with no alterations.

 

[Chrispy]

What is the particular goal of a "stack"? Just what does that mean aesthetically and furniture-wise?

 

[georgist]

What is the particular goal of a "stack"? Just what does that mean aesthetically and furniture-wise?

again this is layman talk, but I'd really like to be able to listen to my music collection and "hear" more
just like when you first buy a good pair of headphones and pick up some parts of the track you didn't even know were there
or when you hear notes and they just sound better, more clarity etc
I'm sure there are technical terms for some of this but I lack the audio education!

 

[Chrispy]

again this is layman talk, but I'd really like to be able to listen to my music collection and "hear" more
just like when you first buy a good pair of headphones and pick up some parts of the track you didn't even know were there
or when you hear notes and they just sound better, more clarity etc
I'm sure there are technical terms for some of this but I lack the audio education!

Better sound just generally comes from better transducers, personally I don't like headphones and prefer speakers. Sometimes just more intent listening in trying to evaluate gear may elevate your sense of particular things. You may be seeking something based on what I consider idiotic exercises in creative writing when it comes to wires, amps, dacs, etc....

 

[georgist]

Better sound just generally comes from better transducers, personally I don't like headphones and prefer speakers. Sometimes just more intent listening in trying to evaluate gear may elevate your sense of particular things. You may be seeking something based on what I consider idiotic exercises in creative writing when it comes to wires, amps, dacs, etc....

not sure what the last bit really means.
I just used headphones as an example of suddenly realizing you could discern more, I'm asking about a stack with speakers in this thread.
I expect I'll get some of that "intent listening" workout when I try my JBLs on my main pi/dac and if I get a UMIK and then start trying to optimize in a feedback loop of listen/change.

 

[kemmler3D]

again this is layman talk, but I'd really like to be able to listen to my music collection and "hear" more
just like when you first buy a good pair of headphones and pick up some parts of the track you didn't even know were there
or when you hear notes and they just sound better, more clarity etc
I'm sure there are technical terms for some of this but I lack the audio education!

In general the best starting point for most people is speakers with flat frequency response and even dispersion / smooth directivity. In layman's terms this means no frequency is played louder or quieter than it should be, and if the frequency response changes depending on the angle (i.e. where you are relative to the speaker), it doesn't change suddenly. Ideally you want the sound to be similar whether you are sitting right in front of the speaker, or not.

You also want low distortion. If you achieve those things AND you add some room correction EQ, you should expect to hear the same music noticeably better than you did before. If you get a speaker setup with those characteristics, you can also add some EQ to taste later, if you decide you want more treble, bass, etc.

Your current setup isn't terrible, but I think you can find some improvement, especially if you use the mic to EQ properly.

I think @Chrispy 's comment was meant to suggest that you may have read something elsewhere that would suggest different cables, dacs, etc will have a big impact on your sound. They won't, but it also doesn't seem like you expect them to, which is good.

 

[Chrispy]

not sure what the last bit really means.
I just used headphones as an example of suddenly realizing you could discern more, I'm asking about a stack with speakers in this thread.
I expect I'll get some of that "intent listening" workout when I try my JBLs on my main pi/dac and if I get a UMIK and then start trying to optimize in a feedback loop of listen/change.

I've not found headphones providing "more"....rather less if anything. Not sure what defines a "stack" otoh. Some weird piling of components on top of one another?

 

[georgist]

In general the best starting point for most people is speakers with flat frequency response and even dispersion / smooth directivity. In layman's terms this means no frequency is played louder or quieter than it should be, and if the frequency response changes depending on the angle (i.e. where you are relative to the speaker), it doesn't change suddenly. Ideally you want the sound to be similar whether you are sitting right in front of the speaker, or not.

You also want low distortion. If you achieve those things AND you add some room correction EQ, you should expect to hear the same music noticeably better than you did before. If you get a speaker setup with those characteristics, you can also add some EQ to taste later, if you decide you want more treble, bass, etc.

Your current setup isn't terrible, but I think you can find some improvement, especially if you use the mic to EQ properly.

I think @Chrispy 's comment was meant to suggest that you may have read something elsewhere that would suggest different cables, dacs, etc will have a big impact on your sound. They won't, but it also doesn't seem like you expect them to, which is good.

Thanks very helpful. Umik it is.