Looking for recommendations on a portable dac/amp for Hd650’s

[Not dave]

HI.
I’m about to buy a pair of hd650’s and wondering if I need an amp. Sources will be iPad Air 4, MacBook Pro , or iPhone XR. I have the apple lightning to 3.5mm and usbc to 3.5 mm dongles.
what portable amp or amp/dac would be good. Budget around £50 to £60. Would prefer something I can get on Amazon uk if possible.
it needs to be battery powered as I will be listening in different locations at home, but size is not really an issue.

edit
Updated typo in budget

 

[machiel]

The S9 seems to be quite powerful portable dac/amp. Amir reviewed it recently

 

[Not dave]

Thanks Machiel. Unfortunately this is outside my (unfortunately strict) budget of £50-£60. The s9 is £100 on AliExpress and £115 on amazon.
Some have recommended the S8 or the Tempotec sonata hd but some reviewers say this would not be powerful enough to drive the hd650’s well. Is this true?
What other amps could I consider in my budget?
I am happy buying used from eBay, but choice there is variable and I would be best looking for an amp / brand that will likely have plenty of listings.

 

[RickSanchez]

I don't own the HD650's but I believe they need a bit more power than what an iPhone or iPad can deliver. As such I think the E1DA 9038S portable DAC/amp would be a good option for you.

• Great measurements: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-e1da-9038s-bal-portable-dac-amp.8424/
• That said, I don't know what the final pricing is. In Amir's review the price was listed as "TBD($70 US)".

It may be worthwhile to save up for a bit if possible, try to get your budget into the £80-£90 range. That could open up some solid options for you. (Or maybe there is a E1DA 9038S on eBay.)

 

[Not dave]

I don't own the HD650's but I believe they need a bit more power than what an iPhone or iPad can deliver. As such I think the E1DA 9038S portable DAC/amp would be a good option for you.

• Great measurements: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-e1da-9038s-bal-portable-dac-amp.8424/
• That said, I don't know what the final pricing is. In Amir's review the price was listed as "TBD($70 US)".

It may be worthwhile to save up for a bit if possible, try to get your budget into the £80-£90 range. That could open up some solid options for you. (Or maybe there is a E1DA 9038S on eBay.)

Thanks. Does the E1DA 9038S need a balanced cable?

 

[RickSanchez]

I believe so, yes.

Given the 2.5 mm, 4 conductor jack, you must use a "balanced" headphone cable with it.

 

[Not dave]

I believe so, yes.

Thanks Rick, the need to buy a balanced cable definitely puts it outside my budget. Unfortunately for a number of reasons my budget is strict. I have found a pair of HD650's going very cheap just a few miles from where i live. This is the only reason i can afford those, so while it may seem odd that i won't spend £100 on an amp / dac, that is unfortunately the case...

 

[Not dave]

Anybody with experience of using the TempoTec Sonata HD Pro with a hd650?
It is within my budget and seems well reviewed.

 

[solderdude]

You need an amp with at least 50mW in 300ohm (0.5W in 32ohm) when you want impressive sound.

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Mini-HiFi-H...268507?hash=item3b57cf37db:g:9A0AAOSwz-ldXlYP

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Douk-Audio-...696558?hash=item3ff4f5e9ee:g:LUQAAOSw4mxdVmWO

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Portable-Hi...866581?hash=item1aaefb7c15:g:qe8AAOSweNpf7YvK

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Finished-MI...784351?hash=item1f1951e7df:g:EKUAAOSwiglfpmWM

 

[Not dave]

Thanks solderdude
Ive just remembered i've got an old amplifier (a 'normal' amp, not a headphone) in my attic and wondered if i could make do with that until i save some more money for a proper headphone amp.
Its an Audiolab 8000a, but no idea what headphone circuitry it has. It will be a bit odd having such a large amp purely to drive a pair of headphones, but since i have it to hand it may be an option?

EDIT
I have found a manual online and it states
HEADPHONES
Output impedance 330 ohms. Suitable for headphones 8 ohms to 2000 ohms impedance.

 

[Cahudson42]

Perhaps an NX3s? Even though a bit long in tooth, Amir got 78mw into 300 ohms I believe:
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...attery-operated-portable-headphone-amps.6312/

I still have mine, though it has now been replaced by a Qudelix 5k. When I used it, worked great boosting an LG V20 to drive HE400i planars..

 

[ZolaIII]

Yup NX3S will do the yob and those are on average 345 Ohm's.
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/user-report.php?id=573#gsc.tab=0

 

[Cahudson42]

Output impedance 330 ohms. Suitable for headphones 8 ohms to 2000 ohms impedance.

Well, not really probably.

If the hp output is simply the speaker output thru a dropping resistor (sounds likely), while it may 'work', it's not going to give you the best out of your hd650..

 

[RickSanchez]

Thanks Rick, the need to buy a balanced cable definitely puts it outside my budget. Unfortunately for a number of reasons my budget is strict. I have found a pair of HD650's going very cheap just a few miles from where i live. This is the only reason i can afford those, so while it may seem odd that i won't spend £100 on an amp / dac, that is unfortunately the case...

As of yesterday Amir reviewed the E1DA 9038D which is the unbalanced version:

• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/e1da-9038d-review-portable-dac-amp.21556/

Comes with USB-C port on one side and a 3.5mm jack on the other. US $99.

 

[Not dave]

Well, not really probably.

If the hp output is simply the speaker output thru a dropping resistor (sounds likely), while it may 'work', it's not going to give you the best out of your hd650..

Ignore my suggestion of using the Audiolab as a headphone amp. I have forgotten that I need an amp of some kind to use an iPhone or iPad as a source for the 8000a.

 

[Not dave]

You need an amp with at least 50mW in 300ohm (0.5W in 32ohm) when you want impressive sound.

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Mini-HiFi-H...268507?hash=item3b57cf37db:g:9A0AAOSwz-ldXlYP

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Douk-Audio-...696558?hash=item3ff4f5e9ee:g:LUQAAOSw4mxdVmWO

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Portable-Hi...866581?hash=item1aaefb7c15:g:qe8AAOSweNpf7YvK

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Finished-MI...784351?hash=item1f1951e7df:g:EKUAAOSwiglfpmWM

Thanks Solderdude,

What would the quality be like of these amps? I can't seem to find much info on them. How would they compare with (for example) an Fiio e10k (of which there seem to be quite a few used.

PS, is the "Headphone Power Calculator" at Headphonesty accurate?

 

[Jimbob54]

Thanks Rick, the need to buy a balanced cable definitely puts it outside my budget. Unfortunately for a number of reasons my budget is strict. I have found a pair of HD650's going very cheap just a few miles from where i live. This is the only reason i can afford those, so while it may seem odd that i won't spend £100 on an amp / dac, that is unfortunately the case...

I would try them with the apple dongle first. If you like listening loud, it may not be enough, but better to find that out then buy bigger.

If it isn't, the 9038D is 3.5mm and a bump in power over the apple.

Edit: if you can get the TempoTec sonata hd Pro for a good price, it's the same device as the hidizs S8 that was well reviewed here. Way cheaper than the e1da devices.

 

[solderdude]

Thanks Solderdude,

What would the quality be like of these amps? I can't seem to find much info on them. How would they compare with (for example) an Fiio e10k (of which there seem to be quite a few used.

PS, is the "Headphone Power Calculator" at Headphonesty accurate?

For high impedance headphones not much can go wrong. Very easy to drive high impedance headphones once you have enough power supply voltage.

 

[Not dave]

Thanks all for the replies. Ive done a lot of reading around the subject of headphone amps the past week and there are some aspects that I am slightly confused on.

1 - Is an amp needed for the HD650
There seems to be quite differing opinions on this. Some have said that they are happy with the volume from an iPhone, others say quite categorically that you must use an amp the get the best from the headphones no matter what volume.
I can understand that the amp in a phone outputs much less power than a dedicated amp. But, if the power of the phone amp allows me to listen to the loudest passages of audio at my preferred listening volume (or louder), then surely that is enough?
There are suggestions that even if this is the case, that the headphones will sound better with a more powerful amp. I don't understand this. I can understand that they may sound better with a higher quality amp.
I would also have thought that there would be some clear, black and white guidance on whether a source (such as a phone) can drive a particular headphone to a certain volume using a standard test track that may contain a good variety of musical genres.

2 - the quality of the amp needed.
@solderdude very helpfully linked to some specific cheap amps above. As a newcomer to this, i was confused that these could be considered to use with a quality headphones such as the HD650's. In my uneducated opinion, it seemed obvious that cheap amps such as these in the signal path would degrade performance. But given that these have been suggested by somebody with a lot more knowledge than me means i am obviously wrong!
So how much difference would there be between using one of these amps (along with an apple usbc dac) and £100 amp/dac such as the e1da? Or even one of the high end desktop amplifiers?

 

[ZolaIII]

@Not dave get a proper mesured amp only such as NX3S which you know it will be able to drive those to full limit and will have some reserve left in (for EQ-ing, DSD, not properly mixed quiet sources and cetera). As much as I am aware that one is in the line with your stated budget. And I don't know even if that will be enough (I hope so) with not proper (under 2V) line input that you get out Apple DAC dongle (around 1.2V as much as I remember).