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Kali LP-6/LP-8 V2 (2nd Wave) studio monitors released

Overall, I don't see any other speaker beating Kali LP-6v2's at this point (US$400/pair), especially if you don't use EQ.

Its astonishing to me that speakers of this quality are available at such a price point. I own a fair amount of vintage audio equipment for which I have paid less than the cost per speaker of the Kalis but I can tell you that the original owners paid an order of magnitude more than that. The Linn Kelidhs that I own were something like $2k/pair when sold new and I guarantee they don't have a preference score anywhere near the JBL 530s
 
Not so positive
Kali's response below:

"First of all, we absolutely do not endorse any of the modifications that are suggested in this video. In addition to the concern (more below) that you might break something while attempting these modifications, we have no data to suggest that the addition of cross-bracing or extra mass would be beneficial. A problematic resonance would be clear to see in the speaker's directivity index measurement. Unaffiliated reviewers have collected this data on their own, and it's not clear that any such resonance exists. You can peruse this data for yourself: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kali_lp-8v2/

Now, why is it a bad idea to modify your speakers in the manner suggested? For starters, any time you take apart the product, you risk breaking something. Maybe you strip a screw, maybe you slice a wire, maybe you bend a component on the amp. You've voided your warranty to make a broken speaker. Adding things inside the speaker also introduces the risk that those things are going to move around and buzz.

More importantly, speaker manufacturers who know what they're doing (and I would happily include any of our serious competitors in this statement) have taken careful time to engineer the loudspeaker system for a certain amount of acoustic volume. By adding things inside the speaker cabinet, you're taking away from that acoustic volume. This can negatively affect the frequency response of the speaker and the behavior of the port tube. In other words, you're taking a carefully engineered system and adding unknown factors that work against that careful engineering.


We've taken the time to measure the average response in this video of the original speaker and the modified version. The modified version is 2-4 dB hotter between 200 and 700 Hz, with a ~10 dB spike at 600 Hz. Interestingly, if your concern was "boxiness," this is exactly the region that you'd want to be less pronounced. This could simply be from the difference of the speakers' position in the room relative to the microphone. But the takeaway is this: the best case conclusion from what's being presented here is that uncontrolled factors in capturing the sound make for an invalid comparison between the two speakers. It is entirely possible that the modifications that were made have negatively affected the performance of the modified speaker. We are happy to share this data via email upon request.

Finally, we have to take umbrage with the suggestion that the measurement data that we present publicly in inaccurate. As far as we are aware, Kali Audio is the only manufacturer at this price point that supplies full resolution measurement data of our systems. We also HEAVILY encourage the collection and presentation of measurements by 3rd parties, because we know that our systems will stand up to this kind of scrutiny. Our published data matches that of these 3rd parties very well. We also have good psychoacoustic science on our side to suggest that the anechoic and in-room behavior of our speakers correlates to a standard which makes them highly useful studio tools as well as generally pleasant speakers for listening.

We're always open to feedback, and we take criticism seriously. Any time we can make an improvement in regards to the value of our products, we strive to do so. That said, the suggestion that improvements are necessary has to be supported by actionable measurement or demonstration. That is not presented here.
"
 
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Sorry, I forgot to post this graph I received from Kali Enigneerng department. .... Kali's test data on the modified (green) versus original (red) speaker response. I don't think much smoothing was applied as usual plots show.

1642717711348.jpeg
 
Not a massive difference, but on paper I actually prefer the green response.
  • Below 200Hz -- ever slightly more bass overall and smooths the dip at 65Hz, so green wins here (primarily for the 65Hz benefit).
  • The peak at at 620Hz could be EQ'd down, while the red dip at 700Hz needs as much help in the opposite direction, so given a choice I'd take the green response through that region (cutting easier than boosting, in general).
  • 1200-1500Hz or so favours red?
  • Above 2500Hz the green response lessens the dip to 5300Hz, while the peak to 8500Hz is also slightly lessened, so green wins there too.
Overall, I'd opt for the green response, but as a novice and wanting to learn, I'm always more than willing to hear why I'm wrong (kindly).
 
Not a massive difference, but on paper I actually prefer the green response.
  • Below 200Hz -- ever slightly more bass overall and smooths the dip at 65Hz, so green wins here (primarily for the 65Hz benefit).
  • The peak at at 620Hz could be EQ'd down, while the red dip at 700Hz needs as much help in the opposite direction, so given a choice I'd take the green response through that region (cutting easier than boosting, in general).
  • 1200-1500Hz or so favours red?
  • Above 2500Hz the green response lessens the dip to 5300Hz, while the peak to 8500Hz is also slightly lessened, so green wins there too.
Overall, I'd opt for the green response, but as a novice and wanting to learn, I'm always more than willing to hear why I'm wrong (kindly).
The problem is that these are not anechoic or windowed recordings/measurements so we don't know the influence of the room which might for example originally create a dip around 600 Hz, which would mean in that case that the flatter green curve is tonally less flat.

If we look at the anechoic measurements from Erin

CEA2034%20--%20Kali%20LP-8v2.png

Source: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kali_lp-8v2/

there is no dip at 600 Hz so the modified loudspeaker will be rather accentuated there.

Additionally as written in the Kali comment we don't even know if the mic or loudspeakers posititions were exactly the same on both recordings. Would be interesting if someone would do an anechoic measurement of both versions though.
 
Oh man I just got my LP6v1 for only a few months then the v2 comes.

The noise floor on the LP6v1 does bother me a little since I'm sitting in a pretty small space and the speaker is only about 1m away from me. It's OK when it's playing.

I'm thinking about selling my v1 then get a pair of v2.
 
Another manufacturer, who claims their products are magic boxes, which you should not open up under any circumstances... everyone who has seen the inside of or build a speaker knows how simple these things really are in the end, even with an amp board. It is a box with drivers and a few components plus cables. If you break something and then want to rma it, different story, but all in all your should not be deterred from opening a speaker by the manufacturer...

Regarding the engineering: I can see their point and would agree with most if what is said. DIY mods are tricky, when the system is well designed in the first place and it seems the case with this product. Resonances are taken into account even by diy builders and can actually be used to even out the response, it is a known quantity and good design will work with it and not against it.

That being said, the reviewers in question don't even claim that this mod does anything useful or enhance the sound in a meaningful way. And I appreciate them actually opening up the speaker and look inside, which most reviewers don't. It dispels some of the "magic" often claimed with audio.
 
Another manufacturer, who claims their products are magic boxes, which you should not open up under any circumstances... everyone who has seen the inside of or build a speaker knows how simple these things really are in the end, even with an amp board. It is a box with drivers and a few components plus cables. If you break something and then want to rma it, different story, but all in all your should not be deterred from opening a speaker by the manufacturer...

Regarding the engineering: I can see their point and would agree with most if what is said. DIY mods are tricky, when the system is well designed in the first place and it seems the case with this product. Resonances are taken into account even by diy builders and can actually be used to even out the response, it is a known quantity and good design will work with it and not against it.

That being said, the reviewers in question don't even claim that this mod does anything useful or enhance the sound in a meaningful way. And I appreciate them actually opening up the speaker and look inside, which most reviewers don't. It dispels some of the "magic" often claimed with audio.

Hmm, I see no magic being claimed quite the opposite really. I do see someone who could learn a thing or two about speaker design though.
 
The magic refers to Kali claiming that you should not open their speakers, because you will break something, which just isn't the case, if you are not clumsy beyond reason. As someone with a strong diy approach it is just something i'm very sensitive towards, i'm happy to admit that. However the tech industry is leaning towards anticonsumer trends and anti repairability more and more and something like the statement from Kali just rubs me the wrong way.
Regarding speaker design, your comment is really too cryptic to properly reply, but i try to anyway. Look at the bbc speaker design approach, where cabinet resonances are a big part of the whole design process. So i don't see where i would have made a wrong statement, care to explain yourself?
 
Any serious company nowadays will strongly recommend not opening a AC socket powered device as its simply too risky and not only when connected to the AC but even after, for example due to charged capacitors or if something gets damaged and causes a shortcut later when powering it on.
 
Oh man I just got my LP6v1 for only a few months then the v2 comes.

The noise floor on the LP6v1 does bother me a little since I'm sitting in a pretty small space and the speaker is only about 1m away from me. It's OK when it's playing.

I'm thinking about selling my v1 then get a pair of v2.

If the noise floor on the v1 bothers you, it might on the v2 as well. Noise floor bothers my wife terribly but the v2 is below her threshold so they are generally pretty quiet. I use mine as surrounds and the noise is a non-issue with any content playing. I can't hear them at 1m although I can at closer distances. I've never owned a v1 so I don't know how much of an improvement it is. But if the v1 bothers you at 1m, I'm not sure you'll be happy with the v2.
 
The LP-6 V2 are now available in Australia if anyone is looking for them.
 
If the noise floor on the v1 bothers you, it might on the v2 as well. Noise floor bothers my wife terribly but the v2 is below her threshold so they are generally pretty quiet. I use mine as surrounds and the noise is a non-issue with any content playing. I can't hear them at 1m although I can at closer distances. I've never owned a v1 so I don't know how much of an improvement it is. But if the v1 bothers you at 1m, I'm not sure you'll be happy with the v2.
Yeah maybe you are right. I do think their claim about the SPL and distance on the Reddit (85dB @ 2.2m with 20dB headroom) means you should have a farther distance to the speaker. They did this design with the listening distance requirement in mind.

But if the 12dB of noise improvement is real, I think it should be OK, since the noise is not noticeable if I sit at twice the distance(but it's not practical since I can't work there:facepalm:).
 
Yeah maybe you are right. I do think their claim about the SPL and distance on the Reddit (85dB @ 2.2m with 20dB headroom) means you should have a farther distance to the speaker. They did this design with the listening distance requirement in mind.

But if the 12dB of noise improvement is real, I think it should be OK, since the noise is not noticeable if I sit at twice the distance(but it's not practical since I can't work there:facepalm:).
I measured yesterday. My room noise is 30dB when my family is asleep and I sit still. Its 36dB at about one meter with the Kalis on. I don't hear it at 1m and at 0.5m I don't notice unless I'm specifically listening for it. I don't know about the Reddit. I'd love to turn down the volume to reduce the self-noise since I would still have plenty of headroom but Kali recommends against this so instead I attenuate earlier in the signal chain!
 
I measured yesterday. My room noise is 30dB when my family is asleep and I sit still. Its 36dB at about one meter with the Kalis on. I don't hear it at 1m and at 0.5m I don't notice unless I'm specifically listening for it. I don't know about the Reddit. I'd love to turn down the volume to reduce the self-noise since I would still have plenty of headroom but Kali recommends against this so instead I attenuate earlier in the signal chain!
Thanks for your measurements!!! It helps a lot!

Clearly, their claim is just saying their speaker can be loud enough and still have plenty of headroom to play with. But they don't take care about the noise floor too much since the first wave will firstly be adopted by big-name musicians and engineers, and these people always have bigger rooms:rolleyes:
 
Thanks for your measurements!!! It helps a lot!

Clearly, their claim is just saying their speaker can be loud enough and still have plenty of headroom to play with. But they don't take care about the noise floor too much since the first wave will firstly be adopted by big-name musicians and engineers, and these people always have bigger rooms:rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure that all of the big-name musicians and engineers are using much higher-end speakers than these. The primary target is likely aspiring musicians and engineers who need to mix their demo tapes. And also for consumers who have dedicated but not custom-built listening spaces. The noise floor isn't an issue when you are actually playing any program. It's only annoying for those of us who want to put them into multi-use spaces and not have to turn them off when not listening. I'm not sure why they focus on SPL because I'm not a speaker designer. The few hopefuls who I know do not mix anywhere near the rated SPL of these speakers. Most of them have the speakers sitting on a "console bridge" (second-hand Ikea desk) and are mixing at around 65-75dB with very few peaks in the 100dB range as not to disturb the next apartment over. The noise on the LP6-v2 doesn't bother me at all because I use them in a dedicated space that I only use for music/movies and so I never hear the noise. For late-night music listening where our average volume is 45-50dB, I wish I had lower-noise speakers but I use the Kalis as my surrounds so I can just turn them off and listen in two-channel. They wouldn't be so useful if you have an office job and want to put them on your desk for ambient music because when there is no content playing, the noise might be irritating.

Again I am no expert but I believe that most music is mixed in smaller spaces sitting close to the speakers. This is done so that the acoustics of the room don't color what the mixing engineer hears. Although the speakers are called "studio monitors" the market for actual studios isn't large enough to support a speaker at this price point so us slightly-above-casual listeners are given some consideration in the design as there are way more of us!
 
Also note that the LFX of the LP6-v2 is 45Hz-3db (per the manufacturer), 39Hz-6db (per Erin's measurements) and 39Hz-10dB per the manufacturers specifications which might mean the manufacturer is a little conservative in their specs (which is good) or that Erin calculated at a slightly different SPL. But also part of the reason we need to use our ears a bit when setting crossovers. Your next homework is to work on placement of the sub! That will probably get you more improvement than fiddling with the crossover once you have it as a reasonable level!

I have been auditioning the SB2000 PRO with my LP6 Kali'sfor the past week or so and I have to say that the combination is simply awesome! Da bass is clean, with no audible distortion and no rattling of any sort, unlike the Monolith 10 I returned due to port noise. And this is playing a 20Hz test tone. With regular music (ok. mostly youtube music, I know not audiophile quality), I hear (and feel) low, low bass notes that I never heard before, even with the monolith 10 that I just returned.

With lossless 24-bit music, the sounds are simply surreal, floating in 3D space with each bass note clear and distinct. TV program audio is quite amazing as I hear bass notes and LFE that cause me to look up and turn around looking for who or what produced that bass thing...and where the heck did it come from:). I believe this is due to the ultralow distortion of the SB2000 Pro. I have them crossed with the LP6s at 55Hz with volume at 0dB. Unfortunately, the sub doesn't go beyond 0dB like all other subs I had, including the Monolith 10 I just returned. But that's ok for now in my small college room. Crossing it higher than 55Hz was trouble as the system sounded too bassy. Picking the right subwoofer crossover point is key to getting the LP6s to sound their very best, IMHO.

The SB2000 Pro pounds some serious bass and LFE that you feel deep inside your gut, even with benign programs, heck even some boring commercials sound really good. I could swear the SB2000 PRO has some kind of a bass doubling generator inside of it. I mean, if a program sends a 50Hz bass note, I feel a 25Hz or lower notes as well. Ofcourse, it doesn't have such a device but the discovery of bass notes/LFE in regular programming has me surprised and stymied since no laws of physics exist that would half the original sound frequency. It must be that these deep notes were in the original programming, but cut off by non-revealing or high distortion subwoofers.

I think low subwoofer distortion throughout if frequency range is far more important than SPL at said range. If I need more SPL, then I'd get 2 or 4 subs, if finances and space permit.

My system isn't optimized by any means since I don't have a room correction kit, so I have no idea what the frequency response is. I'd like to dial in the sub-phase at the crossover point and maintain the LP6 frequency response downward slope as measured by Erin. It's all been by ear so far and will have to be until I find an affordable and easy-to-use RC kit.

Thanks for the help in selecting the correct crossover points for my Kalis.
 
Unfortunately, the sub doesn't go beyond 0dB like all other subs I had, including the Monolith 10 I just returned. But that's ok for now in my small college room. Crossing it higher than 55Hz was trouble as the system sounded too bassy. Picking the right subwoofer crossover point is key to getting the LP6s to sound their very best, IMHO.

I don't think you understand the volume control on the sub. 0dB means the sub will play at its maximum SPL when given an input voltage equal to the specified input sensitivity (0.75v in the case of SVS subs). For some subs that might be an anemic 65dB of SPL. For others that could be 150dB (okay probably not quite that much). They all have a means to attenuate the input signal so that it takes more than the specified sensitivity to get them to play at full volume. This is both for level matching and for getting proper gain structure. 0dB means "maximum volume" but subs vary so one sub's maximum will be less than another's
 
I measured yesterday. My room noise is 30dB when my family is asleep and I sit still. Its 36dB at about one meter with the Kalis on. I don't hear it at 1m and at 0.5m I don't notice unless I'm specifically listening for it. I don't know about the Reddit. I'd love to turn down the volume to reduce the self-noise since I would still have plenty of headroom but Kali recommends against this so instead I attenuate earlier in the signal chain!
How does this noise distance change when you lower the speaker volume to like 15% or minimum?
Does it affect the quality of the playback while listening at lower late night volumes?

I tried asking Kali why the middle position is recommended for volume, but haven't gotten an answer. I know on Genelecs it doesn't affect quality of playback when you change the input sensitivity.
 
I have been auditioning the SB2000 PRO with my LP6 Kali'sfor the past week or so and I have to say that the combination is simply awesome! Da bass is clean, with no audible distortion and no rattling of any sort, unlike the Monolith 10 I returned due to port noise. And this is playing a 20Hz test tone. With regular music (ok. mostly youtube music, I know not audiophile quality), I hear (and feel) low, low bass notes that I never heard before, even with the monolith 10 that I just returned.

With lossless 24-bit music, the sounds are simply surreal, floating in 3D space with each bass note clear and distinct. TV program audio is quite amazing as I hear bass notes and LFE that cause me to look up and turn around looking for who or what produced that bass thing...and where the heck did it come from:). I believe this is due to the ultralow distortion of the SB2000 Pro. I have them crossed with the LP6s at 55Hz with volume at 0dB. Unfortunately, the sub doesn't go beyond 0dB like all other subs I had, including the Monolith 10 I just returned. But that's ok for now in my small college room. Crossing it higher than 55Hz was trouble as the system sounded too bassy. Picking the right subwoofer crossover point is key to getting the LP6s to sound their very best, IMHO.

The SB2000 Pro pounds some serious bass and LFE that you feel deep inside your gut, even with benign programs, heck even some boring commercials sound really good. I could swear the SB2000 PRO has some kind of a bass doubling generator inside of it. I mean, if a program sends a 50Hz bass note, I feel a 25Hz or lower notes as well. Ofcourse, it doesn't have such a device but the discovery of bass notes/LFE in regular programming has me surprised and stymied since no laws of physics exist that would half the original sound frequency. It must be that these deep notes were in the original programming, but cut off by non-revealing or high distortion subwoofers.

I think low subwoofer distortion throughout if frequency range is far more important than SPL at said range. If I need more SPL, then I'd get 2 or 4 subs, if finances and space permit.

My system isn't optimized by any means since I don't have a room correction kit, so I have no idea what the frequency response is. I'd like to dial in the sub-phase at the crossover point and maintain the LP6 frequency response downward slope as measured by Erin. It's all been by ear so far and will have to be until I find an affordable and easy-to-use RC kit.

Thanks for the help in selecting the correct crossover points for my Kalis.
Not sure if this was covered earlier, but did you cut off the <55 Hz range playing from the LP6s themselves? If so, please do let me know how you managed to do so :/

Thanks!
 
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