Kali Audio IN-8 Studio Monitor Review

[musictracer]

Hey guys! I am new to this wonderful forum and I just came to give my 2 cents here. I posted a similar comment in the GS forum, but the conversation there seems to be "dead" so I thought I' d give the same clue here as well in case you are interested.

Intro:
I have been following Kali ever since it first appeared to the market and I have to say I admire the immediate success they had from their very first products, the LP series. When I heard about the IN-8s I was already in search for a monitor upgrade so I started researching for it and until now, apart from the hissing issue ( which to be honest ,unless it sounds louder than my old fridge reaching me from the kitchen, it won't be a deal breaker) it has been getting glorious reviews! I even messaged Kali about a few things I wanted to know and they were quickly responsive and willing to answer all my questions, as if I had been their costumer for years. So, I was ready to order, but there are 2 things that delayed my purchase of them. My current Acoustic Treatment construction and the publication of Frequency response plots since I couldn't demo them where I live.

Main part:
Now regarding this latter subject (Freq. Response) I was very disappointing when looking at the results that amirm presented, who I personaly thank for sharing with us. On the other hand it is really great and relieving that Kali responded immediately, it is something that other companies falsely don't care to include in their policy. So, many thanks to Kali, as well as to it's engineer who responded here in person as well!

All the technical clues presented in this thread are definitely significant and of course should be taken in account.
BUT!
There is another perspective which in my opinion is more important than measured performance when it comes to mixing/mastering. And that is how the speaker translates to all other speakers. I bet there have been countless discussions around the world about speakers like ns10m's or auratones about how poor they perform on paper, yet they have been "secret weapon" of many successful engineer for decades. In fact there are producers that use ns10m studio exclusively (ie. ott ).

So back to the subject, to me there is no doubt that the IN-8 - along with all the rest products from Kali - is a no brainer for the budget, for what it is offering! But there is a youtube review in the internet that made me very concerned about how well it would translate if used for mixing. It is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qXd...youtu.be&t=127

I have skipped to the part where the guy compares his original mix (used Neumannkh310 if I am not mistaken) with the one done on the IN-8's. And I am concerned because the way it sounds seems to correspond to the response amirm presented as measured: The 300hz are indeed hyped, resulting a muddier mix, far from the original mix which to my ears it is perfectly balanced.

Now, I know of course that it is unfair to compare a 400 euros speaker to a 1750 one. But the truth is that when this guy made a similar comparison using the LP-8's instead of the IN-8's in another video, they really sounded extremely close to each other (neumann mix vs lp8 mix)(You can find it in his youtube channel).

Of course by no means am I implying that Kali is not sincere. I really want my next pair of monitors to be made by them, I'd love to support this great company, but I also want to make sure that I can work comfortably with them, not having to guess every time whether something will sound muddy or not. On the other hand, comparing a mix made on speakers one has been using for years with ones he/she just got for a review (possibly not even given the proper break-in time) isn't fair, but, damn' the LP8's did a lot better in their A/B test...

Dunno, what do you guys think?

PS. I can see there are a few owners of IN-8's here. I - along with many others I believe - would love to hear impressions and the application of use you make of them (entertainment / mixing / mastering...) from you guys!

 

[617]

Hey guys! I am new to this wonderful forum and I just came to give my 2 cents here. I posted a similar comment in the GS forum, but the conversation there seems to be "dead" so I thought I' d give the same clue here as well in case you are interested.

Intro:
I have been following Kali ever since it first appeared to the market and I have to say I admire the immediate success they had from their very first products, the LP series. When I heard about the IN-8s I was already in search for a monitor upgrade so I started researching for it and until now, apart from the hissing issue ( which to be honest ,unless it sounds louder than my old fridge reaching me from the kitchen, it won't be a deal breaker) it has been getting glorious reviews! I even messaged Kali about a few things I wanted to know and they were quickly responsive and willing to answer all my questions, as if I had been their costumer for years. So, I was ready to order, but there are 2 things that delayed my purchase of them. My current Acoustic Treatment construction and the publication of Frequency response plots since I couldn't demo them where I live.

Main part:
Now regarding this latter subject (Freq. Response) I was very disappointing when looking at the results that amirm presented, who I personaly thank for sharing with us. On the other hand it is really great and relieving that Kali responded immediately, it is something that other companies falsely don't care to include in their policy. So, many thanks to Kali, as well as to it's engineer who responded here in person as well!

All the technical clues presented in this thread are definitely significant and of course should be taken in account.
BUT!
There is another perspective which in my opinion is more important than measured performance when it comes to mixing/mastering. And that is how the speaker translates to all other speakers. I bet there have been countless discussions around the world about speakers like ns10m's or auratones about how poor they perform on paper, yet they have been "secret weapon" of many successful engineer for decades. In fact there are producers that use ns10m studio exclusively (ie. ott ).

So back to the subject, to me there is no doubt that the IN-8 - along with all the rest products from Kali - is a no brainer for the budget, for what it is offering! But there is a youtube review in the internet that made me very concerned about how well it would translate if used for mixing. It is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qXd...youtu.be&t=127

I have skipped to the part where the guy compares his original mix (used Neumannkh310 if I am not mistaken) with the one done on the IN-8's. And I am concerned because the way it sounds seems to correspond to the response amirm presented as measured: The 300hz are indeed hyped, resulting a muddier mix, far from the original mix which to my ears it is perfectly balanced.

Now, I know of course that it is unfair to compare a 400 euros speaker to a 1750 one. But the truth is that when this guy made a similar comparison using the LP-8's instead of the IN-8's in another video, they really sounded extremely close to each other (neumann mix vs lp8 mix)(You can find it in his youtube channel).

Of course by no means am I implying that Kali is not sincere. I really want my next pair of monitors to be made by them, I'd love to support this great company, but I also want to make sure that I can work comfortably with them, not having to guess every time whether something will sound muddy or not. On the other hand, comparing a mix made on speakers one has been using for years with ones he/she just got for a review (possibly not even given the proper break-in time) isn't fair, but, damn' the LP8's did a lot better in their A/B test...

Dunno, what do you guys think?

PS. I can see there are a few owners of IN-8's here. I - along with many others I believe - would love to hear impressions and the application of use you make of them (entertainment / mixing / mastering...) from you guys!

I think we're in a holding pattern until Amir tests another sample.

 

[musictracer]

I think we're in a holding pattern until Amir tests another sample.

Sure! I'd love to see the new plots too! I just wanted to put the subject on another perspective alongside with the strictly technical one. Ott. himself for example, after having spent countless hours in different studios in his whole life confirms he never checks frequency response or distortion plots. He just fires them up and if they work, they work! I know this might sound a bit exaggerating to some, but he definitely has a point of view, which personally I highly respect (along with his mixing/producing skills of course). As for me, I think both listening experience as well as technical approach is of equal significance.

 

[amirm]

FYI the LP-6 has arrived which I bought myself. Still in the box though. Am anxious to see how it measures but first had to test member speakers that had arrived earlier. Hopefully Kali sends in the IN-8 now that the NAMM show has ended.

 

[thewas]

The Neumann KH80 which was just measured shows also around few dB too low deep bass compared to other measurements, which makes me not so sure if this flaw was only due to a defective IN-8.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh-80-dsp-monitor-review.11018/

 

[amirm]

The Neumann KH80 which was just measured shows also around few dB too low deep bass compared to other measurements, which makes me not so sure if this flaw was only due to a defective IN-8.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh-80-dsp-monitor-review.11018/

It could be bass compression in the KH 80 at the levels I was playing. Hard to say. I can tell you that the agreement has been good for both Yamaha HS5 and Revel C52 with Harman anechoic measurements.

 

[thewas]

It could be bass compression in the KH 80 at the levels I was playing. Hard to say. I can tell you that the agreement has been good for both Yamaha HS5 and Revel C52 with Harman anechoic measurements.

I personally doubt that quite, as the Neumann monitors have a very advanced limiter and when its active you can see it on their big front status/logo LED.

 

[stunta]

FYI the LP-6 has arrived which I bought myself. Still in the box though. Am anxious to see how it measures but first had to test member speakers that had arrived earlier. Hopefully Kali sends in the IN-8 now that the NAMM show has ended.

I thought you were going order the IN-8 yourself (with Kali hopefully reimbursing you) to eliminate golden sample issues?

 

[amirm]

I thought you were going order the IN-8 yourself (with Kali hopefully reimbursing you) to eliminate golden sample issues?

No, I was asking if I should as Kali for the LP-6 and someone suggested I should get one myself. The IN-8 needs to come from Kali to settle the question of it the sample unit is broken or not. If those results are very different than the current unit, then we can decide if we want to get a retail version to break the tie.

 

[stunta]

No, I was asking if I should as Kali for the LP-6 and someone suggested I should get one myself. The IN-8 needs to come from Kali to settle the question of it the sample unit is broken or not. If those results are very different than the current unit, then we can decide if we want to get a retail version to break the tie.

That was me. Got it. Makes sense that you are first eliminating non-golden samples.

 

[TLEDDY]

The desire of ASR members to test speakers was/is virtually unanimous. The purchase of platinum standard equipment to do the testing demonstrates a commitment beyond my imagination.

Thank you, amir!

That said, I put my money where my mouth is... if you have not contributed, please do so. Let’s help make it the best it can be.

 

[617]

No, I was asking if I should as Kali for the LP-6 and someone suggested I should get one myself. The IN-8 needs to come from Kali to settle the question of it the sample unit is broken or not. If those results are very different than the current unit, then we can decide if we want to get a retail version to break the tie.

Amir could you indulge us with a list of upcoming measurements? Looking forward to LP6 and Eris 5xt, but mostly I'm just curious what your cur looks like.

 

[amirm]

Amir could you indulge us with a list of upcoming measurements? Looking forward to LP6 and Eris 5xt, but mostly I'm just curious what your cur looks like.

Hard to keep track of them all . Here are the ones that are purchased by me:

Polk Audio T15 100
NHT SuperZero 2.1
Micca RB42 Reference Bookshelf Speaker
PreSonus Eris E5 XT
Pioneer SP-BS22-LR
JBL Professional 1 Series
Kali Audio LP-6

Promised but not here yet
Kali LP-8
Kali IN-8
buchardt speakers s400 and possibly A500
Revel M22
KEF LS50 (?)
Harbeth Monitor 30
Selah Audio RC3R
GoldenEar AON 2
Infinity Reference R253
Tannoy System 600
JBL Studio 530

That's 18 speakers and I may have forgotten one or two. Whoever predicted people won't be sending speakers in for review was clearly not understanding the need and appetite the audiophile community has in this regard.

My current plan is to alternate testing one piece of electronics and one speaker every day. It is getting stressful to keep up with that pace since speaker testing is generating a ton of discussions which takes time to participate in and answer. I love testing the speakers but the amount of effort has risen quite a bit and I am falling behind household chores.

 

[maxxevv]

It could be bass compression in the KH 80 at the levels I was playing. Hard to say. I can tell you that the agreement has been good for both Yamaha HS5 and Revel C52 with Harman anechoic measurements.

I'm not sure where the figures quoted in the article came from, but perhaps its worth noting for setting a loudness/ SPL level for speaker tests ?

https://www.masteringthemix.com/blogs/learn/the-perfect-monitoring-levels-for-your-home-studio

Since different sized speakers will be used for different applications and their loudness levels will be different as a requirement. And as a result too, their measurements will probably need to be relative to their applications as well ?

As I was suggesting over at another thread, perhaps suitable loudness levels for listening at different listening distances will provide a more useful matrix of references ?

Say SPL levels suitable 1 meter, 2 meters, 5 meters listening distances. Where they attenuate to 80~85 Db at those distances instead or where the max SPL achievable by these speakers for such distances based off your measurements ? The part where you set the SPL based off attenuation estimates at 1 meter.

 

[amirm]

Are you speaking of measurements or listening tests?

 

[maxxevv]

Are you speaking of measurements or listening tests?

Measurements.

Hence my reference to the web link. Its still early in the test cycles, so perhaps its worth a closer look at suitability of applications in the overall scheme of things.

"4. Now you need to work out at what volume you want to listen to your audio in your studio. 85dB SPL used to be a common suggestion for monitoring levels, but this figure was intended for larger spaces such as a cinema. This level is close to the more flat portion of the equal loudness contours (a more accurate update of the Fletchure-Munson Curves). It was later discovered that the method used for measuring the pink noise signal was slightly inaccurate and the reference level for cinemas was changed to 83dB SPL. This level would be super loud and overwhelming in most home studios. Most home studios are smaller than 142 cubic meters, so 73-76dB SPL C is a more appropriate target. Below is a table created by Sound On Sound with recommendations based on room size. "

 

[amirm]

Measurements.

Then I don't follow. Unless the speaker changes its response at certainly level, then it doesn't make a difference at what level we measure. The answer will be the same.

It is true that if you listen at different levels, your perception of frequency response may be different. But that is invariable of the speaker in use.

 

[laudio]

Hard to keep track of them all . Here are the ones that are purchased by me:

Polk Audio T15 100
NHT SuperZero 2.1
Micca RB42 Reference Bookshelf Speaker
PreSonus Eris E5 XT
Pioneer SP-BS22-LR
JBL Professional 1 Series
Kali Audio LP-6

Promised but not here yet
Kali LP-8
Kali IN-8
buchardt speakers s400 and possibly A500
Revel M22
KEF LS50 (?)
Harbeth Monitor 30
Selah Audio RC3R
GoldenEar AON 2
Infinity Reference R253
Tannoy System 600
JBL Studio 530

That's 18 speakers and I may have forgotten one or two. Whoever predicted people won't be sending speakers in for review was clearly not understanding the need and appetite the audiophile community has in this regard.

My current plan is to alternate testing one piece of electronics and one speaker every day. It is getting stressful to keep up with that pace since speaker testing is generating a ton of discussions which takes time to participate in and answer. I love testing the speakers but the amount of effort has risen quite a bit and I am falling behind household chores.

That's quite a list. Do them in order, save the best for last

 

[Rockfella]

FYI the LP-6 has arrived which I bought myself. Still in the box though. Am anxious to see how it measures but first had to test member speakers that had arrived earlier. Hopefully Kali sends in the IN-8 now that the NAMM show has ended.

Hawk eye on that. I got a pair...

 

[direstraitsfan98]

Looking forward to the JBL 530 measurements.