JDS Labs Element III Review (DAC & Amp)

[VladDracule]

I ordered a El II+ amp and dac...but im starting to think maybe i should get the element 3 instead? Any opinions either way? Headphones are hd800s. Order hasnt shipped yet but if i want to change it i probably need to reach out to them ASAP because i paid for faster shipping

 

[Zaiden]

Wondering is it worth it to upgrade to this if you are using JDS the element I?

I'm not much of a parametric EQ kind of person, although I was itching to potentially try out an RME ADI 2 to see if I would like that.

The parametric EQ update dropped at the perfect time for me to experiment. In relation to headphones, the difference is there but not very appreciable to me. But it is really useful for my bookshelf speakers which I run to via the RCA output - the added bass heft is noticeable and appreciated, without sounding digital/artificial as usually happens when I try other forms of EQ.

@jseaber , ever since this update though, my JDS has gotten quite funny with Amazon Music HD's Windows application, when I have JRiver running at the same time (Jriver doesn't exhibit any issues), which wasn't an issue I was experiencing before. Off the top of my head could be to do with bitrate sample selection clash which is resulting in Amazon Music getting locked out. Perhaps someone could be kind enough to point me the right way.

Edit: I turned the Element III on and off again, restarted Amazon Music too, and that fixed the problem.

Edit 2: It was because the sampling was automatically set to 384khz after the update, and I don't think JRiver or YouTube support 384khz - although Amazon seems to. I've limited it to 192khz.

 

[Zaiden]

I ordered a El II+ amp and dac...but im starting to think maybe i should get the element 3 instead? Any opinions either way? Headphones are hd800s. Order hasnt shipped yet but if i want to change it i probably need to reach out to them ASAP because i paid for faster shipping

Based on the ones I've auditioned, I think the HD800S as is definitely requires EQ to bring out the best from its drivers as the stock tuning is just woeful. If you can go for an Element III, or an RME ADI-2, I don't see why not.

 

[VladDracule]

Based on the ones I've auditioned, I think the HD800S as is definitely requires EQ to bring out the best from its drivers as the stock tuning is just woeful. If you can go for an Element III, or an RME ADI-2, I don't see why not.

does the element 3 have some form of EQ? I wasnt aware of that, mine is being delivered today.

Edit: found the blog post about it, i was planning on just using peace with equalizer APO but thats cool. Is the element III enough to really drive the hd800s? Im currently using them with a Chord Mojo 2 and ive seen a lot of people say you need a good amp with them. Like the hugo, but thats outside my budget

 

[RangerAudio]

does the element 3 have some form of EQ? I wasnt aware of that, mine is being delivered today.

Edit: found the blog post about it, i was planning on just using peace with equalizer APO but thats cool. Is the element III enough to really drive the hd800s? Im currently using them with a Chord Mojo 2 and ive seen a lot of people say you need a good amp with them. Like the hugo, but thats outside my budget

There is a more powerful edition that will pretty much drive anything. I just got mine yesterday and my hardest-to-drive headphone is the Edition XS. I'm very very impressed, as it drives everything very well and with style. I've tested it with iems, and my powered speakers. It's a fantastic unit that is easy to use. The MK 2 has a solid knob and just feels and looks premium. Maybe not an end game for everyone, but it is for me. I fully enjoy mine and recommend it to anyone.

The build quality is top-notch, it has easy-to-download drivers, and works easily out of the box. I have no complaints as it has zero noise floor. It's just great. I got the boosted powered version for 50 dollars more and got a B-Stock version for 50 less. I'm very happy. (It was about 450 total US.)

Going from Speakers to Headphones is simple, just a quick button from the back. The MK 2 is very nice, but I don't have the mk 1 to compare, and I Eq with Peace.

 

[MightEMatt]

I just wanted to mention this as a Mk1 and briefly a Mk2 owner. I believe he'll be updating this information, but the 2.5 firmware and therefore the Mk2 does not support >192Khz over USB. This is fine in my case. However it caused me a bit of concern as I was just dropping it in as a replacement, and it started screaming static at me until I dropped to 192Khz. The driver didn't lock me out of trying 384.

Edit: The knob was definitely firmer to turn and click as well as some additional issues, but John is under the impression that mine might not be representative of the intended feel. I'll hold my feedback on that for now.

Alright so an update to this situation. The mk2 knob is a definite step up from the mk1. Very smooth rotation, no wobble at all, and the resistance is just enough to feel silky and premium without hindering operation with a light touch or 1 finger spinning. The knob press is quite firm, I'd almost argue a bit too firm but the problem is more likely that the mk1 was incredibly light; I'd accidentally clicked it on multiple occasions. This is largely a nitpick, the mk1 could be activated with a fairly light click even around the edges, which probably didn't help the wobble, but was also fairly convenient when going for an absentminded switch. Also I believe there was a firmware fix for the 384Khz problem so disregard that.

Now the messy bit, this was a 2 month RMA. It started with a firmware issue on the mk1 that resulted in a return. This is the 3rd mk2 I received. The 1st had a defective knob with an awful feel, which initially soured my opinion on the new knob. The 2nd felt good physically, but still had some functional issues with the knob. My impression from John was that I'm a bit of an isolated case of bad luck, getting a couple lemons back to back. Support was frankly incredible, providing near immediate replies when I had concerns, and encouraged me to RMA when I was dissatisfied. I can't put too much weight on the total time as that was largely delayed due to lack of inventory. Perhaps if my original mk1 didn't work at all I would've been more upset, but my original did still function so I wasn't hung out to dry.

Anyways I hope I was an odd case, because as far as the mk2 goes I couldn't be happier. The mk2 is a big improvement in feel on an already incredible product, and the customer support was the best in the business as far as I'm concerned. I bought from JDS for this very reason, and all things considered he certainly earned my trust throughout this whole ordeal.

 

[jseaber]

@MightEMatt - Thanks for your constructive feedback! You've been a great help in making Element III the best it can be.

Yes, the 384k bug was quickly patched. Unexpected feel from your first MK2 knob was indeed an isolated human error: a C-Clip was not installed securely and managed to pass functional testing before shipping out and dislodging from its shaft. I discussed with our team as soon as this happened to ensure C-Clips are properly installed and tested (many presses, many turns). So far, no more C-Clip incidents. Sorry about that!

Based on feedback during the first few weeks, we replaced the original 4lb spring with a 2lb spring to improve feel of the tactile button. Further feedback indicated occasional physical noise from the spring assembly. We commissioned a batch of custom 2lb springs to fit the custom knob shaft and replaced a single 1mm washer with two 0.5mm, low-friction washers for smoother/quieter knob turns.

 

[pablolie]

My Element3v1 works perfectly, and I never thought there was anything wrong with the knob.

 

[MightEMatt]

My Element3v1 works perfectly, and I never thought there was anything wrong with the knob.

Absolutely, I never felt the mk1 knob was lacking, and I didn't think much of the wobble until I had one side by side with the mk2. I had it replaced for a firmware issue that prevented me from updating it, otherwise I'd still be happily using the mk1. My comments weren't to discourage mk1 owners, just to say that as a mk1 owner, the new knob did not disappoint.

 

[ta240]

Is it likely to get the DSP through spdif or does it process those two signals too differently for that to happen? I'm currently running an analog interface that has an adjustable boost from about 500Hz down and would love to do that digitally.

 

[bboris77]

Is it likely to get the DSP through spdif or does it process those two signals too differently for that to happen? I'm currently running an analog interface that has an adjustable boost from about 500Hz down and would love to do that digitally.

Element III MK2 = New Knob and EQ Firmware – JDS Labs Blog

blog.jdslabs.com

John answered this question here in the comments.

 

[jseaber]

Element III MK2 = New Knob and EQ Firmware – JDS Labs Blog

blog.jdslabs.com

John answered this question here in the comments.

Beat me to it. Here's a direct link to the comment:

Element III MK2 = New Knob and EQ Firmware – JDS Labs Blog

blog.jdslabs.com

 

[ta240]

Element III MK2 = New Knob and EQ Firmware – JDS Labs Blog

blog.jdslabs.com

John answered this question here in the comments.

Typical, I didn't read down far enough.

I had issues with the update to the squeezebox touch that allowed for USB output but I may have to try it again. Digital volume control, 2nd harmonics to play with, DSP in a quality product are too much to pass up.

 

[DJ LP]

I completely understand where you come from and I hope I made it clear this was no criticism of what you said, I was just sharing my opinion.

I am not an EQ guy, even though I can fully understand where the benefits clearly can lie (the ideal linear or Harman response etc etc), but I'd rather go for simplicity and combine things I enjoy, and then over time one adjusts to it anyhow. Because otherwise, I might start thinking about different EQs for different albums and what not. And it is very seldom that recordings with some flaws (and ultimately, they all have some, come on) can stop me from enjoying music I love. Several much-hallowed "reference" jazz recordings from the early 60s are very flawed, yet reviewers continue to claim they hear more detail and definition through the latest and most revealing gear, for example. I shall always pick a great performance I love over a boring-sterile yet sublimely recorded one.

I definitely see your points about eq but here's a problem that having an eq available helps with. It keeps you from possibly going down the rabbit hole to find the exact sound you're looking for. Most of the gear we look at is probably not available locally to go into a store to listen to unfortunately. Me personally, I have read reviews, personal reports on products, went on forums, like this one and when a purchase was finally made, it still wasn't exactly what I wanted. Me personally, I like for my equipment (home, car and headphones) to produce and adequate amount of bass. I now own the HiFiman HE1000v2's and while they're a very good sounding headphone, for me I need a little more in the sub bass dept. With me being able to eq, now I'm getting exaclty what I want. Without that, I'm going down the rabbit hole of buying more headphones to try and get what I want and I'm not one who has a bunch of headphones, I only want 1 pair that can do it all. I even have 2 subs in my home system. LOL. (2) M&K MX-350THX subs. Another reason why some, like me may want more bass too is because of the type of music they listen to. I'm all over the place, from 1920's big band to whatever. Some music, you won't notice the slightly lower sub bass output but on others you definitely do. Thank you for mentioning in another post about this dac/amp. I have a question. Do you think that it will sufficiently power the HE1000v2's? I'm thinking about the power boosted version. Almost pulled the trigger but before I do, I want to know what you think.

 

[pablolie]

... Do you think that it will sufficiently power the HE1000v2's? I'm thinking about the power boosted version. Almost pulled the trigger but before I do, I want to know what you think.

The test in this website indicated one need not worry about power. Also, the JDS Labs team is stellar when it comes to answering questions via email, and they are quite active on this thread too, so I'd ask for their opinion.

 

[DJ LP]

That's good and what most companies should be doing, but they could do with having slightly cleaner performance on some graphs.

Let's get 50mV performance above 90, lets get cleaner jitter, SNR greater than 120dB, SINAD 115dB would also look just great.

Looking at it otherwise takes me back a bit, to where ESS was still humping on many DACs. I get the SINAD race could do with being over, but there are those little things that could use just a bit more cleaning up to bring it from 2018 levels of performance.

But, the positive still remains. Finally someone is trying to chase RME and their feature-set. It's only been forever... Glad someone actually woke up in the audio space.

One thing though. Please tell me they fixed the encoder wobble. It's usually a problem when you have a massive knob on a thin encoder/encoder stem. Idk what sort of stabilizer they'd need, but I wouldn't be able to stand it, if the knob had wobble tilting. Their prior ones had it. Also I remain concerned about knobs in this position. Seems like a dust trap where dust falls underneath quite easily due to vertical orientation.

Aside from that (and the lack of balanced, though I guess they've been explicit with not caring about it). Seems pretty good, especially the size.

EDIT: Mobile typos.

I definitely agree with you as far as someone putting more features on a dac/amp unit. Especially allowing you to tailor the sound to your preference.

 

[jseaber]

Do you think that it will sufficiently power the HE1000v2's? I'm thinking about the power boosted version. Almost pulled the trigger but before I do, I want to know what you think.

@DJ LP - The HE1000 v2 is rated 35 ohms @ 90 dB/mW, meaning it needs well below 1W to reach dangerous listening levels. For more detail, search for "Power is Volume" on our blog.

 

[DJ LP]

@DJ LP - The HE1000 v2 is rated 35 ohms @ 90 dB/mW, meaning it needs well below 1W to reach dangerous listening levels. For more detail, search for "Power is Volume" on our blog.

Thank you for your response. I'm new to your company and I just purchased a unit. It's supposed to be delivered sometime today. Will my unit be a MK2?

 

[jseaber]

Thank you for your response. I'm new to your company and I just purchased a unit. It's supposed to be delivered sometime today. Will my unit be a MK2?

Yes, only Element III MK2s are in production and in stock. Enjoy!

 

[Monosauras]

Excuse my ignorance. I'm looking for an amp + dac (either combo or separates) to use with a pair of Focal Utopia. I'm more familiar with home theatre, so a bit out of my element here.

I like the look of the Element III, but intend on using it with a raspberry pi as the source. I only see drivers on the website for Win 10/11 though. Does this mean I won't be able to connect a raspberry pi (running ubuntu or similar) via usb?