Improve current system with Kef Q1

[Hausmeister]

Hi all,

I am thinking about an upgrade for my current system (Kef Q1 speakers on a NAD352). Ideally it should serve for Hifi listening and Music production and the budget should not exceed 2000€.

I have these speakers in a L shaped room (37m^2) with no treatment (and no treatment possible for the time being) and I have found quite some important dips for low frequencies. As a first step I tried to optimize the listening position using REW at many positions. I could get rid of an important dip at 80Hz but now I am left with a serious dip at 50Hz which I can't seem to eliminate.

Now here comes my first question:

1) If I can't do room treatment (this is our living room), does it even make sense to get better speakers?

The Q1 are not super speakers, but they have a nice sound to me, lacking bass however. But I'll probably find exactly the same dips for more expensive speakers below 100Hz. I understand that a subwoofer with EQ (such as the SWS SB1000 Pro) in principle could help below 100Hz, but as I can't highpass the Kef Q1 I would be limited to the range up to 50 Hz approx (which is where the Kefs "enter") in order to avoid a too large overlap.

Currently the older Neumann KH120A are available at good prices, so my idea would be to combine these with a SWS SB1000 Pro for the bass management. These speakers don't have room correction, but the SWS does (3 PEQ). They have a -7.5dB bass reduction option, which should make it possible to use the subwoofer up to higher frequencies, reducing peaks below 80Hz or so with the PEQ of the sub.

2) Could this be a good combination?

Of course the new Neumann KH120 II with DSP and Neumann Subwoofer would be better, but this would go well over 3000€.

Thanx for any info you can share!

 

[RickyC34]

I can only speak from personal experience. The OG Kef R3's and 2 RSL speedwoofers can be had for around 2K. That's the route I went in my living room. (these subs are "dumb" but you get two vs one with the SVS)

Room treatments won't have much effect that low. Adding a sub would be my top priority.

Adding something to the chain to help manage highpass, xover, delay, gain, etc would also be high on my list. In my very large open-concept room, I also value room correction. What's your source? I believe Wiim now offers a few bands of PEQ for pretty cheap. Equalizer APO is a free Windows software that adds adjustable bands as well. There are many software options out there available or a solution like a Minidsp can be helpful when blending subs to mains.

2) I've only heard from VERY happy Neumann customers.

 

[Hausmeister]

Thank you very much RickyC34! The sources are:

1. Main source is a Wiim Pro Plus (as far as I could find out only graphic EQ for given bands)
2. CD Player
3. Laptop (using Equalizer APO)

Ideally I would find a common EQ solution for all three. I have been reading into the MA1 software and it looks like using the KH750 subwoofer MA1 can be used even for the analog KH120A (the subwoofer has 2 XLR out for the speakers). But the subwoofer alone goes for 1500 I could go for the KH120A now and get the expensive sub later.

 

[Alexx]

I also ask for information on these speakers.

I found them new for 430 euros but I have some doubts because I read reviews that say they do not have a good medium-high range (muffled) and a strange resonance around 600Hz?

I must say that as a construction they are really cheap, the absorbent material is placed a small piece above and below, nothing on the sides of the cabinet!?

Link where it shows some characteristics:

They will have to work with the Marantz CR-612 will it be able to drive them decently?

For the bass I have a small Cambridge Minx 201 Subwoofer.

Alternatively I have Elac 5.3 much cheaper or Polk.

I accept advice.
Thank you very much.

 

[morphemes]

looks like you just need to add a sub somewhere near to the MLP
even just adjusting the speakers, they might just need to move a foot or two to slide those modal dips out of earshot. might be that easy.

are they toed in? high end looks very off axis. crossover damage? this tweeter should scream through 20khz.

low end doesnt look that bad to me... the Q1 only specked down to 50. you need to add a sub to fix this low end. you dont have a dip at.80 i see a couple of couples of spikes (reinforcement collapses at the tippy top,its one BIG spike biting its own head off.. this is definitely modal & some damping IN the offending axis would tone it down but it's not THAT bad) from 100-200hz & your -3/-6dB ~50hz point is a bit steeper than it should be. not too bad according to the spec sheet im more concerned about the top end being so nonexistent. cant do anything about the LFE rollercoaster without a sub to meet them halfway

 

[Alexx]

I listened to them.

the timbre is very good, definitely "warm" initially it is very pleasant, but with the time you have the feeling that something is missing in the mid range and that the bass is too long...

I also tried Dynaudio Emit 20 (we are on other much higher levels) especially in the mid-high range more present without tiring, and more restrained bass.

Also the Elac 5.3 noticeably more open and musical.

The Q1 for goodness sake are certainly valid, but on more open electronics than my Marantz 612, but for 600 euros we are not there...

I'm waiting for the Rega Kyte, probably with those I have a good compromise.